"Atheist proves god does exist"

I mean an individual consciousness. You said it is created. I just wondered what happens to it after death is all? (not looking to judge, just curious as to your belief)

 

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I will answer you both tommorow, as I am feeling tired.
Okay.

jan.

 

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universaldistress,

Point taken (even the imbeded dig).

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That's quite open-minded of you.
Check out vedic philosophy (if you have the time), it is profoundly beautiful and scientific (in the original sense of the word).

Not in these forums.

Some people here cannot and will not tolerate such a dicussion?
Good idea though.

jan.

 

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The individual spirit-soul (of which consciuosness is symptom), due to
it desire to want to be independant from the Lord, is forced to live a conditioned life in this material atmosphere.
It is drawn to a particular set of circumstance (mother/father) according to it conscious level. It take birth in that body, and at the end of that life it accepts another body according to it's level of consciousness.

It goes round an evolutionary cycle from one life form to the next (birth and death), till evenually it attains a human form. The human form is the way to stop the cycle of birth and death.
If it wastes this oppotunity, eventually it starts the cycle all over again (birth and death).
This is repeated unitll finally the living entity understands that he is a spiritual being, and returns to its natural habitat (God).

Bhagavad Gita 2.13,

As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change.

jan.

 

It wouldn't have to be a love-inn, more an exploration of different religious approaches. Surely that can fall into a scientific context?

So this is a Hindu belief. Cool. Believe it or not I am not a bigot or hater of religion. I just have strong views on religion and its past, present and future.

I strongly believe that people are entitled to their own beliefs and practices as long as they are conducive with peace in the world. I would also say that the vast majority of religious people are peaceful. Just a shame others are not so inclined.

This liberal view however is not one to interfere in a scientific debate. I have to follow my reasoning.

Believe it or not I have actually seen the whole universe at once through the eyes of god. You may think this should have left me a changed man, a believer. But instead it just compounded my skepticism. I have found a balance in life. One that suits my reason and my present course. I believe religion to be a deeply personal experience, and something people come to possibly without choice, for it is in their eyes something proven beyond doubt. And while again I cannot see myself making any kind of leap like that, I do respect people's rights and beliefs to the extent they deserve in any given context.

What is your ethnic background? Did you grow up within your faith or find it in a different manner? I do know that Hindu texts are widely regarded and read within western circles.

 

This is how human beings should relate to each other.
I am english, and though my parents believed in God, they weren't religious.
My mother became more so in the few years before she passed away.

I went through a phase of going to church at about the age of 14, but never became a member, or a christian (traditional). I stopped going at the age of about 16/17 because I was not satisfied with the answers to my questions. However, I did learn to play music in there, and I must say, i'm so glad I did. It allowed to view music in such a way as i could never have learnt in the ordinary way.

My intro into spiritual stuff came in the form of a book called 'The Prophet' by Khalil Gibran. I just wanted more and more.

Have you heard of it?

jan.

 

I read it; it's pretty good writing.

 

No. I once read a book called Siddhartha. Also the Celestine Prophecy. But I firmly believe these types of books are tapping into something that exists within the human condition. I believe spiritualism to be purely a mode/construct of the physical mind.

 

I will check it out though.

 

False.

I do agree though, that an atheist will likely be the one to prove God, just as it was a theist that popularized the Problem of Evil. I think it is true, unfortunately, that most theists don't bother even thinking about whether what they believe is true or not. They're not as inquisitive, in general. There's more of an inclination to close their eyes, plug their ears, and go LA LA LA LA! In fairness, I've seen this in atheists, too, but at least atheists use critical thinking and logic in their arguments. If God exists, and is a God of truth and order, then these logical arguments are more relevant than many theists are willing to admit.

 

Socratic Spelunker,

God has already been proven, it's just that you don't accept it.
Ibelieve what you're refering to is proof that that is acceptable to you.

Probably not.
But at this point consider Pascals wager.

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Are you inquisitive to strictly followed regulative principles as laid out by great souls?

To what though?

What good is critical thinking if you're acting as above?

If God exists, then then these arguments are only of use if it helps you realise Him. Otherwise they are just a waste of time.

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jan.

 

Really? Please share..

What do you mean "if"? You mean you aren't sure?

 

The typical atheist makes the following assumptions:

1. Only the physical universe exists.
2. The physical universe is purposeless.
3. The physical universe is valueless.
4. The physical universe is meaningless.
5. The physical universe lacks consciousness.
6. It can be proved that these assumptions are true.
7. All purposeful, valuable, meaningful and conscious activity is ultimately activity that is
purposeless, valueless, meaningless and lacks consciousness.

Are these propositions consistent?

 

Atheists do acknowledge that consciousness is a product of the physical world. The rest are assumptions based on evidence or the lack of it, and could always be revised due to new information.

 

False why?

 

Enmos,

e

Go to a religious site.

Context.

jan.

 

You've no choice but to.
Otherwise you would have to reconsider your whole world view.

jan.

 

I have no problem with reconsidering my whole world view. Is there anything that should warrant that?

 

That matter is is product of consciousness?

jan.

 

It isn't. Unless you have evidence otherwise?