Star Wars vs Star Trek

Once again! You've missed the point!

I'm talking about how well the ship can with stand an impact!

In this case the belly of the ship was grinded up like Styrofoam on sandpaper!

 

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However it sustained much less damage on a hardened runway made for traction than the Enterprise Suacer section did on alluvial hills. I would point out that all half of the invisible hand had going for it was docking thrsusters and a few maneuvering fins. The saucer section had inertial stabilizers and thrusters according to video and script. So the comparison is not looking to be in ST's favor at all.

 

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I'll grant the SW capability via hyperspace.

I'll grant that the writing was horrible and it focused more on the tech and stuff than Frank did but Frank was a character man. Brian and Idiot are useful for explaining tech and presenting historical events but the characters and plot intricacies are very much sub-par.

 

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However their tech violates every notion that Frank had set down. He was very clear that Highliners NEVER entered atmosphere. That was a rule the Kids took great joy in bending over the table and forgetting the lube. And it wasn;t even the worst of their errors.

 

Not true. Highliners did land on Junction in Chapterhouse: Dune, a book written by Frank. Where does Frank say they can't... I don't recall that.

 

In the very first dune, it was mentioned when they were loading Atreides House. Might have been just my printing but Frank mentioned that the Great Houses only needed to take themsleves into orbit becuase the Highliners never came down into atmosphere.

I wouldn't be so upset if they were just landing them or leaving atmosphere, but spacefolding in should cuase catastrophic stress as the ship goes from zero pressure to several hundred atmospheres as it displaces the air that was in the spot it is noe occupying. Not to mention giving them an ability that they never practiced even when doing so would have been in their favor.

 

I thought Dune was on the list simply for the point of humor, as was spaceballs.

 

Wrong!

Yes, even at significantly slow speeds the Hand suffered considerable damage on impact!

I saw no physical damage to the Enterpise's saucer on impact!

And Voyager's crash in 'Timeless' was even more impressive...

 

Okay, did some research. The background of the lazgun i'm not sure of it's capabilities but I think it is of the traditional laser type. Now to the other universes the properties are different but since they are slower than c it is conceivable that the holtzman shields would be able to hold against that. The problem occures at c or faster due to the quantum nature of it. So we are stuck with very strong shields and very weak weapons vs. very strong weapons and intermediately strong shields. That's where we get into tactics.

I'll use the tactics aspect here. Dune ships would most likely use a hit and run method due to their interstellar propulsion (instantaneous travel). That wouldn't give ST or SW time to deploy their bombers.

This is an interesting weakness of the holtzman shield. Due to the billions of different points the sand grains hit the shield it weakens its defense to larger missile like weapons. They shut down the shield in that book because it was pointless to have them up in a sandstorm. But the question remains as to how long it would take for the other universes to figure that out?

Highliners are not the only spacefolding vessels in Dune. There are innumerable amounts of ships with Ixian navigation machines that were sent out into the scattering.


Someone said something about no-ships being able to be detected in the other universes. So what if you could? How are you going to interact with space that has left this plane? It was referenced that no-ships entered into a null-space separating it from the normal space around it. Sensors are able to penetrate it and neither could prescience because effectively nothing was there! Miles Teg was the only one who could see them because he saw the emptiness in the prescient medium. Note that other prescients weren't able to because the no-ship reflected what was around it to fill the gap,it is assumed that it would do the same for sensors.... The properties could be explained by the holtzman effect it uses where it is stuck in foldspace, not being in any point of the universe at all.

 

Okay, I know what you're talking about now... the reason, of course, is that the Spacing Guild purportedly was neutral and would not use their abilities in that manner. However they do when breaking the spice monopoly is involved.

The mechanics of the Ix jump doesn't hold up, I'll grant that. There would be significant damage to the area the highliner jumps into.

 

Okay prove this.

Significantly slow, it was still doing twice the remaining length in one second. Meaning almost 2km persecond or 120km per minut or 7200km per hour. For that speed it took remarkably little damage. The Transparasteel bridge was left comepletely unmarred. No panels in the bridgeeexploded.

Well, I didn't see Beverly get bruised either. :shrug:

However I did see many of the tranparant alluminum windows break. For an impact of less than the length of the saucer per second or under 200meter/second into soft terrain the damage was excessive compared to the hand.. The bridge was a mess, Later when the crew was being evacuated you could see the cracks all around the hull.

Thye yoyager is a much smaller ship, less force.

 

Yet they did not do it to Paul when they had the chance, so it stands to reason they don't for very specific reasons.

It would also do hoorendous damage to the vessel in coming.

The closest equivalent in Sci-fi is Nightcrawlers teleports. People not used to them can become disorientated as the eardrums pop under changing pressure.

 

There is no reason to assume that any hull damage was taken in the crash.

The reason that no bridge panels exploded is because the Hand had a significantly smoother landing than the Ent-D.

And that speed is nothing compared to impacting the ground at full impulse!

I obviously misspelled.

Only the one...

I saw no cracks.

But it hit at full impulse.

 

No, just visuals

Yes, but you were comparing it to the Enterprise -D Saucer section impact, which was defiantely not at full impulse.

I know, I was playing with you.

No, there were many. If one window broke under no visual stress, howmany broke as dirt pushed against material that was never ment to be out of zero pressure.

The go to the eye doctor. If it was as intact as you say why wasn;t it just field repaired and towed off planet?

Probably with it mass reducers online I would bet. Meaning the impact would be far less. We also have to factor in the shields if any. The hardness of the ground and such. And wheter or not the warp bubble was active. If it was the ship was massless and m*v^2 is zero if mass is zero...... Which is defiantely the case in a AQuantum Slipstreem as the mass would be reuduced to virtually nothing. It is also of note that Warp and Slipstream travel are completely imertialess, so the energy of the impact would be far, far less than what you think it would be.

 

*sighs*

I give up on you...

Durasteel does NOT have Neutronium in it. Period. At least NOT Star Trek's impenetrable neutronium. If it DID, any ship with Durasteel hulls would have crew crushed into atomic states!

Centerpoint CANNOT crush the Doomsday Device as it's SOLID NEUTRONIUM. You'd be trying to crush the MOST DENSE MATERIAL in the known universe!

If Centerpoint doesn't use energy, how, then, does it crush stuff? Gravity? Good, now all Trek ships are immune to it...

 

Sardonic, you'll learn quick to ignore this man... he's pointless to talk to...

Scott, you still haven't answered my post... is that because you can't? Should I PM it to you?

 

Also, Scott, just for you

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AGAIN

So what's your response scott?

 

Are you stupid?

That ship was supposedly designed to land somewhere...

the Saucer section of the Galaxy Class is NOT designed to land ANYWHERE without the rest of the damned ship! Much less WITHOUT primary power, shields, the SIF, or any other forms of structural support!

 

So you're saying that, the same shields YOU claim cannot stop a meager piece of starship impacting the nacell, those same shields, saved the entire damn SHIP when it GODSMACKED against a planet? Jesus CHRIST are you john kerry? You flip flop like him!

 

because of the strange properties of the Holtzman effect, both devices (weapon and shield) get blasted by sub-atomic fusion.