i presented a good argument. that is why you are resorting to name calling.

its personal choice on wither to work in a place that allows smoking or not. if you are a non smoker, and you know dammed well, smokers go to said bar because they can smoke inside, then DONT APPLY THERE! Dont go to SAID bar!! problem sloved! you can still have your fun without worrying about smoking or cancer. its personal choice.. I have noticed that when you go to any bar with the ban, all smokers are hiding pretty close to teh door outside.. so if a non smoker who walks in or out still has to be around it.. you dont complain to them about where they are smoking, you just walk on in and bitch to others about it...

christa, smokers dont seem to be making a big deal about smoking bans. in fact it seems like non smokers who THINK they are doing them a favor have the problem with it. this is something i never understood.

but really i dont think they even believe that they are doing them a favor. personally i just think they are a pain in the *****.

we dont.. tho we bitch about people trying to do what is "best" for us.. again it all comes to free will you know.. Why do "they" care about what others do.. we do not effect them.. if we die, they will not be sad because we are gone...

exactly.

the thing about cigarette smoke is that it really does bother non smokers...only in reasonably confined areas though.

same with hard drug users who spend their money on drugs instead of food.

Is that what you think?

You're cute when you sputter.

Sure, pretend that you're the "good guy" here. But do you estimate that publicly stating your delusions will make others more or less likely to share them? After all, they appear in context.

As a former smoker I used to smoke 2 pack a day from the age of 14 until 5 years ago I am now 42. I think a ban on smoking is a good thing and you cannot tell me that smokers do hurt anybody that would be true if they never came in contact with anyone. I never realized how much smoking would bother someone else until I stopped smoking myself. Smoking is harmful to all that are around it children are at most risk even from second hand smoke on the clothes of a smoker. A ll out ban on smoking should be done as it serves no purpose what so ever for any one other then to 1 look cool and 2 feed a craving for more nicotine.

quad, this is not about me. this is a debate, making this personal means you should either respond to the OT arguments or dont respond at all.

and why are you talking to me as if I have not stopped smoking? Yes, it has just been 4months, yes I know it stinks.. but I still deal with it.. most my family and friends smoke. I even had a grandmother passed away after smoking 4PACKS a day, and she passed away with complications of lung cancer.... doesnt stop my dad from smoking.. didnt stop me.. I stopped because I was to broke to keep up my habbits

Sorry for singling you out was not intensional by any means.

On a long highway trip, I find both cell phones and cigars to help prevent me from falling asleep. In town where one must often react quickly to things like cars suddenly stopping, I agree the distraction of a cell phone can be dangerous. But on the highway, I think they are beneficial.

That's a very common observation.

As a nonsmoker, mostly, smoking has never bothered me much within reason - open a window in the truck cab, don't rest your cig hand under my nose, etc.

Not everyone is reasonable - and pugnacity often backs discourtesy. And it does bother my wife, more. And after being in crowds, the smell in your clothes and hair is pretty bad. My wife and I never went out dancing - for years - until the bar smoking ban; between breathing hard in the fumes and dealing with the laundry once home, she never wanted to.

I just don't trust this kind of personal objection and escalating anger over discourtesy when it comes to writing laws. You get specious social engineering arguments, poorly thought through wordings and failures of consideration, and we've got another batch of meddling, counterproductive, waste of time interferences with human life that can't be repealed without a five year state wide publicity campaign.
I agree about the cigars, but about the cell phone I think you are unaware of its effects on your driving. I've seen people phone and drive, as a passenger, and they never notice the extent of the degradation of their abilities. Even on long trips, stuff can come at you in a hurry.

Here is the way I see it...

I live in IL. They banned smoking indoors in IL. So now I go 15 minutes away to Missouri to smoke indoors, be it in bars or restaurants.

When they ban it in Missouri, then I will find another place.

And when there are no other places to ban it from, then I hold my middle finger to the air and smoke wherever the hell I want. Because facts are facts; I'm going to do what I want. Smokers smoke. Drinkers drink. Fibbers fib. And stinkers stink. There is no changing that unless they want to change.

Banning smoking is just as stupid as banning people wearing perfume. Because guess what, perfumed affects everyone too. And I for one dont want to smell someone that stinks like a french whore house everytime I go to the store, restaurant, bar or work. But I certainly couldn't and wouldn't BAN them from wearing perfume. Because it's THEIR choice to do so just as it's MY choice to smoke. Hell, I might even be deathly allergic to perfume, but thats why I make the personal decision to AVOID people that where perfume. I take it upon myself, respecting their decisions, and I avoid them. It's really not that hard. I take 10 steps to the left and VWALAH! I don't smell them anymore!

It's a miracle how that works, isn't it? How one can get off their lazy @$$ and move just a teeny weeny bit to avoid an annoyance.

If you don't like smoke, don't keep yourself around it. That simple.

um, mz fewer and fewer people smoke so it is most likely a losing battle. i dont think you are being honest about the driving either because only an imbecile would drive all that way when they can walk outside the door for 5 minutes of smoke time and even take someone with them.

I hate to break it to you but yes, I am VERY honest about driving. I have no problem whatsoever driving the extra 10 minutes to a locale that accomodates my EVERY need.

For clarification. I'm not talking about JUST to smoke... i'm talking about liek if I decide to go to dinner or go to a bar... knowing that IL banned smoking indoors, I have no problem going to an establishment an extra 10 minutes away that allows me to smoke indoors.

ten miles isnt far at all.

"When they ban it in Missouri, then I will find another place."

realistically you wont go that far just to smoke a cigarette when you can just walk a few feet and be outside with other smokers.

that sounds dirty hehe

mz just what are you talking about?

You will in places where it is freezing cold at prime drinking hours much of the year.

I have little complaint about smoking bans at bars in southern CA. I'd rather smoke outside in the first place.

But Minnesota, for example?