Star Wars vs Star Trek

Bigger than 900 km? I don't think so. Not even close. Besides destroy Arrakhis and spice production is gone. Sure there is the other spice planet now, and pseudo spice, but in two more fell swoops those planets are gone as well. Suddenly Bene Gesserit, Pual, his son, and navigators are screwed, provided they survive. The universe would have to surrender in order for them to continue existing as after what spice is in storage is used up, there is no more.

Second Dune weapons are still in the late atomic early energy weapon phase. Even if their ships were armed with the best of what we have seen, they would be off no threat to a battle group.

Finally, yes they had computers once, but if you do not use a skill you lose it. They had the Mentat program to replace anything more sophisticated than our modern PC.

 

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I would say that C3PO, and other droids, are at least on par mentally with any mentat. In fact, I'd imagine they surpass that, noting that C3PO was created and programmed (?) by a semi-literate slave boy and nonetheless is still capable of communicating in what was it, three million distinct languages, including various computer ones?

Star Wars also had droids of at least this sophistication for 30,000 years. The Rakata and Xim the Despot both had droids and it is very, very likely, that by the time Coruscant became a planet-city it had droids, too. This would put Star Wars' droid technology at 100,000 years old, as well as their capacity to make planet-cities.

 

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First of all Dune weapons are not in late atomic...atomics are banned pretty much, they have them and better weapons like complete sheilds, lasguns etc. and second of the ships aer that big ...highliners are about the size of a north carolina or such.. and do you know how many ships the emporer alone has... yeah and mentats are more advanced then c3po... also the Battle for Duen would be a joke..if you read the prequils you will get an idea of how big the battles can be if they need to defend spice..the only reason why you don't see it in the latter books is becasue of the politics...everyone has huge fleets and massive amount of weapons..star wars would get owned.

 

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Lasguns and complete shields = The full extent of their weapons. No lasgun has ever been shown to demonstrate the power of SW blasters and turbolasers.

Heighliners are not the size of North Carolina. Leto II, no matter how powerful he may have been, could not have lifted up a ship the size of North Carolina.

Mentats do not speak 3 million languages. They are not more advanced than droids.

The Empire alone has 50,000 _Star Destroyers_. Millions of other ships.

 

Considering they can instant go anywhere they like...and then the Empire blows them out of the sky. And then the Empire blows up Arakis (IE Dune) and no more spice for the spacing guild...oh no looks like all planets in the dune galaxy no longer have any trade nor are their any interplanetary capable ships now.

About defending dune...if the Empire had to they'd bring in all avalaible ships. They could probably spare a 1000 Stardestroyers and their followups. And the Death Star MK2. it would be a tough battle but they'd have to focus on the DS to insure the planet doesn't get destroyed....of course then the stardestroyers get to glass the planet. then they'd have to focus on those too. Every single shot of every single star destroyer. It only takes a single star destroyer to glass an entire planet. Then lets say they can handle ths DS and all 1000 stardestroyers and their 10,000 frigates. Can they handle 1,000,000 Tie bombers.

The Empire has many options, and this mission is simply to destroy the planet they don't care about casualties.

 

In Knights of the Old Republic, I've seen the Star Forge first hand, and by God, it's QUITE invulnrable!

(for example, when I defeated Darth Malak, he said "impossible" as he coughed and died, and I believe this to be correct, only in a video game could the good guys win a battle with the Dark Lord of the Sith: Darth Malak..... but then again, it is a video game, but that is not to say that "Sith" or "Borg-like" organizations donnot exist! lol)

 

Hello gents I just registered here.

I've read some of the post here and I have to say that. In my perception...
Star Gate has the most powerful weaons in SCI FI, Followed at a distance by Star Trek which is in turn followed at a distant by Star Wars.

I've followed the discussions at Stardestroyer.net and st-vs-sw.net at lenght.
At first I had reservations on both but I've come to side on st-vs-sw side of things

While Trek doesn't reign supreme it has been more consistent with the advancement of technology. Star wars is almost certainly unnatural with it's technology.

It's history goes back 20,000 years. Appearently they've always have had light sabers and space travel. I find this absurd, truely. There is a missing part of the puzzle here. Star Wars tech is in such disarray to have been around for thousands or years let a lone 20,000.

I surmise that this technology was introduced to the galaxy not developed I also suspect for there to be such wild fluctuations in tech and no tech or low tech that the galaxy experience yet un recorded dark ages for truely by this time in space these people should truely have discover far far more than they have.

>ps..

There were only 25,000 thousand Star Destroyers at the Peak of the Emprie as stated in Timothy Zahn's novel Heir to the Empire.

 

saguist:

You do realize that the unnaturalness of Star Wars is owing to high-technology for -at least- 100,000 years? Not 20,000, but 100,000. Coruscant first became a city-planet 100,000 years before hand. Moreover, how is it in disarray? The Death Star II can produce as much power as the sun can in 1,000 years in a matter of minutes, whereas the original could do it in a day. Moreover, Star Wars is capable of travel in excess of 20 million times the speed of light, litterally making a hop across the galaxy as quick as a trip from Chicago to London.

Moreover, what weapons does SG1 have? They have beam staffs and modern day rifles. The galaxy is threatened by a bunch of priests with pasty skin.

 

Oh, I forgot: The Sun Crusher could cause even regular stars to go super nova and had armour that was only destroyed by sending it into a black hole.

 

I've no knowledge of the 100,000 year period you make mention of. I only know of the time line that Geoge Lucas provides in his books which starts over 20,000 years ago with the Hyperspace wars.

In any case no matter how long ago. Star Wars has made an insignificant amount of progress and advancemnet in weapons and tech over even 100,000 years.

Don't you think it speaks mouth fulls of a civilization that doesn' understand it's techology but simply uses it as much the Go'uld does in Star Gate?

Secondly Power statisitcs are and tech stats in star wars are very hard to come by and often the books and manuls provided by Lucas film either fail to expand on understanding or...don't match with what is seen on screen.

Thirdly: I don't believe Hyperspace speeds are in the order of millions...more like tens of thousands perhaps hundreds of thousands. I've read every book in the New Jedi Order series. If they're ships were so fast then Jedi wouldn't have to hibernate in transit.
Further ships in the New Jedi Order series also took up to two months to transit the Galaxy. It's speeds seem on the order of slipstream from trek.

Lastly: StarGate has stated and I quote:

Daniel Jackson: How long do you think we'll last?
Mirror universe Samantha Carter: I don't think we'll even feel it. The blast they hit New York and Washington with were on the order of 200 Mega ton blast.

that's a considerable amount of fire considering that 77 Hiroshima nukes equal one Mega Ton! That's 77 x 200. That figure alone alows Star Gate to stand at the top of the SCI FI mountain.

However...there is more...Star Gate has far faster ships that Trek or Star Wars. Traveling to distant Galaxies in a months time. Star Wars doesn't even believe that extra-galactic travel is possible untill the end of the New Jedi Order.

If anything I have to discribe Star War tech as the most advanced archaic technology I've ever seen.

 

Saguist:

The 100,000 years comes from the books/comics canon also.

20 million times C for a -cargo ship that any civvie could buy and modify- with a reasonable amount of money?

Droids that an illiterate slave boy can programme to be a world-class protocol droid?

Weapons that employ more power than the sun does in 1000 years?

How is this "insignificant"?

The books and technical manuals usually are pretty reasonably matching wghat is on screen. Moreover, many of the figures take directly from the movies to make predictions. Wong is great for this at www.stardestroyer.net

No Jedi hibernates for voyages. They hibernate for force rejuvination and for the rare instance when they are going to be in space for more than a week or two. This probably means the corporate sector, Hutt space, or the deep core.

ALmost all planets can be reached within a matter of days at most, hours at best. The Hydelian Way worlds, fo rinstance, probably take only a matter of hours to reach from Coruscant. Same with the Corellian Trade Spine.

200 megatons?! Small ships in Star Wars are capable of producing gigaton-level explosions. Moreover, current technology has achieved an 50 megaton bomb (the Tsar Bomba).

You have very little knowledge of science fiction. EVen STar Trek, with its pathetically weak weaponary, can produce that sort of power with heavy phasers on its ships. A single light turbolaser can produce legions more energy on SW ships.

Hyperspace doesn't allow for travel outside of galaxies, yes. HOwever, it would not take long at all, considering there'd be virtually NO obstructions. In fact, I'd say it'd take a week to go through the intergalactic void, if even that much, at hyperspace speeds.

 

You must see that I'm saying it took too long to get to that point. However powerful that maybe 20,000 years to make this progress is very insignificant. Compounded with the fact that they've had the techonology to do it for some time. Never mind the need for it.

Wong has lied. His implications with the Episode two Tech manul are documented. As a result it is obvious the man responsible for observing the film and coming up with those stats was largely influenced by wong.

You'll note by this time Star Gate came out with it's 200 mega ton figure ON SCREEN. This is very suspicious! That he come up with the exact figure stargate did after the fact. VERY SUSPCIOUS.

Compounded with the fact that BOBA FETTS ship obviously doesn't display that amount of fire power ever.

I've done extensive research on the subject as I'm writing my own book for Trek and Wars name Cataclysm. What I see is that Trek rarely displays awesome 50 megaton fire power but it does show it from it's normal fleet...but it is rare.

I can't say that I've ever seen that fire power from Star War's ships. But ever and never are powerful words. Let's just say I remain unconvinced and that the Episode two tech manuel was an obvious attempt to attache a greater number to top Star Gate and Trek.

I for one am not buying it.

On the Hyperspace issue: You're wrong. The Yuuzahn Vong arrived in the this Galaxy by means of Hyperspace. And since it seems that the Vong originated in this Galaxy once more it seems that Star War's has lost critical information or tech.

 

On the up side....on the Last season of Star Gate when the Jaffa finally became free defeating B'aal and Anubis fleet and the Replicators the ships were subcoming to just a couple of blast and then blew apart.

At firt I though that such destruction was unlikely but watching the series over again one catches small details. I came to realize that Star Gates level of Fire power was scaled in orders.

In a fighter syle combat it's not much different from Star Wars...But Bombers have an incredible potential to destroy captial ships where I've never seen this potential from fighters.

 

You know, I hate people who don't have the common sense it takes to read math. It is even worse when they say that something is bull shit, even though the creator of that universe says that it is cannonical and factual.

No, nothing suspicous at all to those of us taking our medicine.

Really, that seismic mine wasn't in the 200 megatons and up catagory? Those missles weren't at least 50 megatons? You know enough of the composition of those meteors to say exactly how powerful those beams were?

Best I have seen is 20 kilotons in Skin of Evil. That's the best. Nothing else weapon wise comes close.

Of course not, in your mind you ignore the multimegaton asteroid vaporizations and the word of the creator.

No one asked you to buy it, the information is free just like water being wet and the Sun being bright. You can deny it all you want, but it doesn't change anything.

No, the Yuzhan vong did not use Hyperspace, they do not have the technology. They have gravitational attraction drives that are the speed equivalent of slow Hyperspace. Coupled with Multigenerational they migrated from their Magellian Cloudlike cluster to the Star Wars Galaxy.


As for Hyperspace it does work outside a galaxy, but plotting a course in interglatactic space is as tedious as inside. One needs to forge the new path first wihich means microjumping and scanning. Even with the Hyperdrives it would take a long time to reach a nearby galaxy the first time. After the first time though it would only take a month or two worst case.

 

TW Scott:

You know where it says hyperspace can be used outside? And why would you have to plot jumps so slow? There are no planets and other obstructions in the intergalactic void. Isn' that the main problem with hyperspace travel in the normal SW galaxy?

Saguist:

You do realize that eventually at one point, the more power you have, the less amount of progress you can make, yes? For instance: Computing only has so much power it can feasiably jam into things and this is defined by Planck Space. Also, portability, expense, et cetera, limit development. But you will note they had ridiculously powerful weapons even at the beginning of their development.

Official stuff. Your objections are moot.

Um, yes it does? BOba Fett's ship rips through tons of huge asteroids with little problems with the seismic charges.

The Vong did not originate in the SW Galaxy.

 

There were several Hyperspace foryas out into interglataic space, a few during the old republic, a few during the Empire, and one during the New Republic. All ships in question were hyperspace capable.

One of the major impediments to hyperspace is gravity shadows. Normally only stars, planets and other large celestial bodies have a significant gravity shadow to project into hyperspace. Now in the known galaxy this is a moot point as it has been so heavily charted that a single computer can hold all the information on ever significant moving body. Intergalatic space has not had the same done. In fact the inky endless black is largely unexplored even visually. The result is that a ship can jump a light year or so and scan ahead for gravity anomlaies, debris, and such and repeat the process. The jump takes almost no time, but the scan and plot could take several minutes. Still I would take this over Warp as you could easily travel 4 light years an hour.

 

TW Scott:

Hmmm. It's surprising the Empire didn't send out massive efforts for greater exploration.

But thanks for the info. I was under the impression that they held that one could not jump out of the galaxy with hyperspace.

 

Palpatine kept trying to send dark force adepts and outside the galaxy they go even more insane then they were. It was a matter of not wanting to expose galaxy to force users more evil and destabilizing than the Sith.

 

The will of the galaxy's connection to the Force produced that insanity and such?

 

Actually it is probably the sudden drop off in the force that cuases it. It would be like going from seeing and hearing perfectly to barely seeing anything and hearing static, except on a much larger scale. It drove C'boath (sp?) mad.