On Einstein's explanation of the invariance of c

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by RJBeery, Dec 8, 2010.

  1. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meter

    The metre (or meter), symbol m, is the base unit of length in the International System of Units (SI). Originally intended to be one ten-millionth of the distance from the Earth's equator to the North Pole (at sea level), its definition has been periodically refined to reflect growing knowledge of metrology. Since 1983, it is defined as the distance travelled by light in vacuum in 1⁄299,792,458 of a second.[1]

    The distance traveled by light, not the time it takes light to traverse a meter stick!!!
     
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  3. Neddy Bate Valued Senior Member

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    Where does it say anything about "absolute rest"?
     
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  5. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    Where does it say anything about an object???
     
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  7. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    I'll repeat it again.

    The distance traveled by light, not the time it takes light to traverse a meter stick!!!
     
  8. Neddy Bate Valued Senior Member

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    That definition of a meter can hold true on a bus going 60 MPH. All you need is a vacuum, some light, and a very accurate clock.

    Anyway, I've got to run now. But please consider what I said in post #519, I really think that will help us reach an agreement.
     
  9. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    That definition can stand anywhere, as light travels independently of objects. Einstein DID NOT grasp that concept, for if he did, he would be in agreement with me.
     
  10. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    You can not calculate the width of the country without knowing its speed.

    Show me an example such as my country example, using Einstein's methods, that you find the width of the country without knowing the speed? That is impossible, as I described before, light can take different amounts of time to travel an object's length, depending on the speed of the object.

    It is why Einstein can not tell you the speed of the box, or the width of the country from within the box.
     
  11. Tach Banned Banned

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    Easy, you place a mirror at the far end of the country, you send a pulse of light towards the mirror. You start a clock when you send the pulse, you stop the clock when the pulse arrives back. The width of your country is:


    W=c*T/2

    Not in the frame attached to the object (your "country"). In that frame, the time it takes to go E-W is equal to the time needed to go W-E.



    But you can. This is why the Nobel committee has invited both Einstein and Galilei to your Nobel prize awarding next year.
     
  12. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    Wrong again, Tach, as round trip light travel time only gets the length right if the country has a zero velocity. You can not find the length using round trip time.




    Like I said, just make sure the headlines read, "Einstein's SR renamed to BS." That and send Bank of America certified checks to me. I don't want to be in the same category as Gore.
     
  13. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Ah whatever!

    If I was beyond the event horizon of the quasar in the center of M87, and M87 was inside a box, how could I calculate the speed of the box?
     
  14. Tach Banned Banned

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    Sorry to burst your bubble, this method has been used successfully from the 1800's, even before your so much hated Einstein.





    I did. Einstein and Galilei mummies will be delivering your prize.
     
  15. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    ...and in hundreds of years, nobody ever figured out how fast the box was going. Incredible!! Can you imagine how they would feel knowing that it was as simple as second grade math, and yet they still couldn't figure it out? Sure you can!







    Cool!
     
  16. Tach Banned Banned

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    But you did! Even if they kept you inside the pitch dark box!

    They feel like being entertained.
     
  17. chinglu Valued Senior Member

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    This was my simple minded question.

    This mean you can not answer it. I would not if I be you.
     
  18. Tach Banned Banned

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    Yes.
     
  19. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

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    You now rank very highly on the crank index.
     
  20. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Motor Daddy:

    Can you please give me a step-by-step process showing how you can determine the velocity of a box using only experiments inside the box?

    Thanks.

    That remains to be seen. I'll wait for your method before commenting.
     
  21. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    I think MD hasn't put together that the metre is defined in terms of an interval of time. The time he's quoted above is also defined in terms of the distance light travels. Both time and distance are precisely defined over a real interval, in terms of light traveling through a vacuum.


    To elaborate: it means that distance (the metre) is defined as a number of transitions--wavelengths--whereas time is defined by the frequency of the transitions--an oscillator. Conventionally the emitting particle is in a "stationary frame". So choosing an oscillator corresponds to choosing a rest frame.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2010
  22. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    1. You synchronize two clocks as such that they read the same time, simultaneously, as they would in a single time zone. I've given numerous ways of doing this in this thread. I'm sure technology has a better way of doing this, that's fine, the more accurate the better. I do not claim that you can measure time with 100% accuracy, as that is impossible for anyone to do. I am using theoretical clocks that are 100% accurate, and they are 100% synchronized with absolute simultaneity. Again, the more accurate and simultaneous the clocks read, the more accurate your measurements will be. There is always a margin of error due to our imprecise equipment. Just remember, by definition, you can not separate the distance light travels from the elapsed time of the light travel. It is simultaneous in that regards, as are two lights meeting. By definition, the lights each traveled the same distance in the same elapsed time, simultaneously.

    2. The synchronized clocks are a distance apart from each other. You will measure the length of that distance between the clocks.

    3. You send a light signal from one clock towards the other clock and record the time the light signal was sent.

    4. You record the time the light signal arrives at the other clock.

    5. You subtract the start time from the arrival time to find the amount of elapsed time that the light signal took to go from one clock to the other.

    6. You perform steps 3-5 in the opposite direction.

    7. You now have the one-way travel times in each direction. You know the speed of light is 299,792,458 m/s, by definition. You therefore know how far light traveled in each direction by simply multiplying the elapsed time by 299,792,458. So for example, if you measured .1 seconds in one direction, and you measured .2 seconds in the opposite direction, light traveled 29,979,245.8 meters in one direction, and 59,958,491.6 meters in the opposite direction.

    8. 59,958,491.6-29,979,245.8=29,979,245.8 meters. That means the box traveled 29,979,245.8 meters in .3 seconds, its velocity is 99,930,819.33 m/s.

    9. The box traveled 99,930,819.33 m/s for .2 seconds in one direction, so the box traveled 19,986,163.866 meters in .2 seconds, and the light traveled 59,958,491.6 meters in .2 seconds. That means the distance between the clocks is 59,958,491.6-19,986,163.866=39,972,327.734 meters.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2010
  23. Tach Banned Banned

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    Since you are measuring the SAME distance in both directions, light cannot travel ".1s in one direction" and ".2s in the opposite direction".

    You flunked.


    Nope, since this is based on the error at the previous point. You will need to take this class over. Or, even better, sit in your dark box and take a break from posting nonsense.
     

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