Islam and Terrorism

Discussion in 'World Events' started by sandy, Jan 27, 2008.

  1. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, it is possible that these are valid. Just as your eternal hell-fire belief may be true. I don't think they are. But they may be.


    Lets follow the flow here. I asked if you thought non-Islamic faiths (ones without the belief in a single supreme God, Book and Last Prophet) could similarly teach the ideas expressed in Sura-108. You responded by talking about chopping off arms. I answered by saying yes, those may be valid beliefs systems of their own right (I personally see them as no different than teaching kids to fear thinking unholy thoughts by punishment in eternal hell-fire - Child abuse all the same).

    What I find interesting is you skirting even this SAM?

    You don't think Buddhists and Shinto and Native Amercians and Hindu teach something as simplistic as good people are rewarded for their good deeds and bad people are punished in the next-life?!? It's rather mundane. Makes me wonder what you think of non-Islamic beliefs. What do you think? They're all butchering babies to go to heaven :bugeye: And get this SAM, because the Qur'an condones murder in self defense of Islam, it's not only possible to murder another human and be blessed by Allah, but that's why Sufi and Ahmadiyya children were murdered last week. Talk about chopping off children arms and legs - what about roasting them alive for Allah?!?!? So, you may want to remember the next time you point a finger at someone, four more are pointing back at you.




    So, do other religions teach the lessons of Sura-108 that are not monotheistic?
     
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  3. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Also not the question. Iceaura asked you about forms of Islam within that religion: some of them are profoundly offensive and inhumanitarian. The same is true of other religions, but his question was why you selected the disagreeable forms of other religions to compare to agreeable forms of Islam. To quote him directly:

    The question was of varieties rather than gross philosophies.

    I appreciate your outrage at being - presumably - pigeon-holed here, since people try that shit on me all the time. But I'm not doing this to you.

    I hope this clears things up for you.
     
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  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    You can pick whatever answer you like, Michael. There is no skirting. Like I said, I cannot simultaneously hold opposing viewpoints philosophically. I can acknowledge that there are diverse opinions, but they cannot all be equally valid. You can consider this a personality trait if it makes you feel better. It doesn't change what I have said throughout this thread and in all previous discussions on the same topic which we have had ad nauseum. Even you yourself have amply demonstrated that you do not hold all theologies as equally valid, otherwise this discussion would not be going on.


    Hmm I'll leave it at the point that I was comparing the basic philosophical viewpoints of the two religions. If, according to me, the four noble truths are the disagreeable parts of Buddhism, what would the agreeable parts be, in your opinion? And having eliminated the four noble truths, would it still be Buddhism?
     
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Your personal philosophy demands invalid comparisons and deceptive characterizations in its rhetorical justification?

    You have not reached that point.

    There are sincere and believing Buddhists who do not live as if lobotomized. So you seem to be missing something.

    This may be why:
    That would render you incapable of using reason in a choice between initially unfamiliar conflicting viewpoints. You would be trapped in your initial framing of any issue, which determines the nature and degree of any "opposition" in presented viewpoints.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2010
  8. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe you're hung up on the idea of valid.

    Let's make it much simpler. Is it possible for you to entertain the thought that there is no Allah? Like I said, I'm atheist. I can philosophically agree I may be wrong and there may be an Allah. Are you able to do likewise and philosophically agree you may be wrong and there may NOT be an Allah?

    You know what's funny about this. Is, perhaps one day you'll find yourself in Heaven. And there is an Allah. And Allah will say to you, you know SAM. I actually invented and put Buddhism on the earth for people to learn from it. Because of your insolence you are now being reborn as Michael's experimental mouse. *poof*

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    See, isn't the interesting. I may be possible that Allah instigated and developed Buddhism - even the Four Nobel Truths. It could all be a part of Allah's ultimate plan. But, you don't think these thoughts because of the paradigm you have trapped yourself in. Sad too, IMO. Thank the Gods I don't live with THAT chain around my mind.
     
  9. Anti-Flag Pun intended Registered Senior Member

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    What could they possibly do to make it worse? Put Richard Branson in charge? Oh wait.....
     
  10. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    SAM,

    Do other non-monotheistic religions teach the same lessons as Sura-108?

    Michael
     
  11. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Not that I know of, in fact, I don't know any other scriptures which acknowledge that there are other prophets or other religions and claim that righteousness and piety is the only thing of importance. I don't know any other scriptures which acknowledge that disbelievers have a right to go their own way. Do you?
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2010
  12. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks SAM, you're a great example as to why I said that Sura-108 promotes division and intolerance. You're exactly why most non-Muslims think Islam sucks balls. In exactly the same way we think WASP White Supremacist Neo-Nazism sucks balls. Some people can't accept that Blacks are equal to Whites. Some people can't accept other Belief systems are equal to Islam. No matter how ways we phrase things, these people will always find every and any little mental excuse they can grab hold of to maintain their little bigoted attitude. People just love feeling they are superior. They'll gladly be a bigot towards other people because of the skin color or because of their belief - just as long as the world revolves around them. Whites are the Supreme Race. Islam is the Supreme Meme. Whatever. There's really not much you say to argue with a person who is going to take that sort of an attitude regardless? I THINK at least we can agree to that much?
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2010
  13. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Because I answered your question honestly?

    You asked:

    Well do they? Can you quote these religious teachings to me? I'm fairly sure I'm right that no other religious scriptures refer to their own as a reminder of other religions that have gone before or say that all prophets are equal and that

    but I could be wrong.

    If you know any different, I would like to know. Do you?
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2010
  14. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    I'm glad you did. If you had said I think Blacks are inferior and said so honestly I'd still think your attitude is intolerant and bigoted.

    Firstly SAM, your position is Islam is the superior belief. Just like WASPs think to themselves, yeah, Blacks are human. Just inferior to Whites. You think yeah, there are other people who worship God, they just do so from an inferior set of beliefs. That my dear SAMington is being a bigot. I have to say, I'm shocked you can't see it. But, if you are that blind then you are :shrug:

    Secondly, yes SAM, many people say this. As a matter of fact that was an argument many Native Americans tried to make to White Christian settlers. That they needn't "convert the heathen" because the Native American's Great Spirit was the same force as the Christian's God. They both taught many of the same truths. But you know the Christians thought, so-the-fuck-what, our Religion is Superior and you will be converted. Thus they were. Accept Jesus. Thus they did.

    I find it a sad chapter in the state of human affairs. But, if one thing good could come out of it, it would be we have learned that this attitude sucks balls and sucking balls sucks.


    All Prophets were equal, but their prophecies have been slowly corrupted over the years, leaving us with only one perfect religion: Islam (oh, and a lot of other inferior and flawed belief systems) = being a bigot.
    All humans were equal, but, the human race has slowly been corrupted over the years, leaving us with only one perfect race: white people (oh, and a lot of other inferior and flawed humans) = being a bigot.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2010
  15. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Well of course. Otherwise I would not be a Muslim. Its like marriage. You marry the man you think is best. Or politics. You support the politics that you think is best. Or ice cream. You prefer the flavour you think is best. This is what everyone does.

    Why are you atheist? Why are you not a Muslim?

    bizarre.
     
  16. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Moderator Note: From the start, this discussion has centered on the increased association by some non-muslims of Islam with terrorism. I have renamed the thread (original title- Islamists Planned Attacks Across Europe).
     
  17. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    (1) You'd be irrational and wrong if you think your man is Perfect and better than other men in all ways. You may think he's the fasted man in the world. That he's also the smartest man in the world. He's the strongest man. No other man could ever be as mathematically gifted. Could swim as fast. Talk as fast. Do neurosurgery as well. You'd just be living in a fantasy. By admitting there are other stronger, faster or better swimmers out there doesn't mean you can't stay married to your man. It just means your being rational.

    (2) By thinking your political system is Perfect and can not improve and that other political systems CAN NOT do, at least some things, better - well, again, you're being irrational and would be wrong. This is the attitude of a generation ago, when Americans would attack and kill "Communists" for the crime of their political belief. Thank that Gods we've progressed - at least a tiny little bit .

    (3) It's ok to love a flavor of ice cream. But, you're being irrational if you say your flavor of ice cream is Perfect and all other's are inferior flavored. That's asinine.

    I'm atheist because, much like my skin and eye color, I was born that way and there is nothing I can do, minus some serious surgery, that is going to change that. As I said, I am no more able to believe in your Allah, then you are able to believe in Xenu or that the FSM exists. It's simply not possible. Which is why religion is like race, but probably closer to mother-tongue. There are some things you can't change - and why should you? FMPOV is it's idiotic to worship a deity that judges humans to be pious. How stupid. But, I will admit such a creature may exist.
     
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    There you go.
     
  19. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    denial
     
  20. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    @spidergoat- Let's talk about my own "denial" in Private please. The notes I'm making as moderator are intended to focus and extend the discussion, and not divert or curtail it. If you would like to question my motives in guiding the discussion here, then please do so privately.

    Moderator Note: In order for this thread to belong here in World Events, it is necessary for all participants to maintain a certain focus.

    This is not a fitting thread or subforum for members to compare their own beliefs (or disbeliefs) with that of others. Here it is permissible to explore the question of whether or not Islam (and the 1/4 of humanity who are Muslims) promotes terrorism. It's a salient topic with many implications in current world events. However, this discussion will not be allowed to continue here, if it cannot remain focused on the topic as I'm framing it:

    Does Islam condone or promote terrorism such as we see regularly appearing in current events?


    This is not an attempt on my part to curtail this discussion- It's a belated (and unlikely) attempt to rescue it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2010
  21. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Actually, I don't think anyone is seriously arguing that the 1/4 of humanity that is Muslim promotes terrorism. Or at least no one serious is arguing that, and I think the question is fallacious from the outset.
     
  22. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    So you're saying you were born a bigot? Well, it's certainly possible :shrug:
     
  23. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I suppose you could. After all, bigotry is an extreme form of preference and I do find myself bigoted against ideologies that require racism, caste systems, Trinity saviours with exclusive paths of redemption and a nihilistic view of the human experience.

    Yes, I think you could consider me a bigot against such ideologies. It would be a fair description.
     

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