|
|
|
|
11-06-09, 05:52 PM
|
#1
|
|
|
The unrest in Iran continues.
“ |
Protests in Iran
Green November
Nov 5th 2009
From The Economist print edition
Iran's opposition takes to the streets again
THIRTY years ago, the world was mesmerised by pictures of 52 blindfolded Americans being taken hostage in their embassy in Tehran by Iranian students. This week’s anniversary provided more gripping scenes, as Iranians used the official celebration of that event to take to the streets once again, this time to protest against their own government and their country’s controversial president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, whose re-election in June they still hotly dispute.
The green movement, as the opposition calls itself, had held no big rally since Jerusalem Day in mid-September, when protesters turned an officially sponsored event into an anti-government one. On November 4th they did it again. Thousands came on to the streets, despite dark warnings from the authorities. There were big demonstrations in Tehran, and reports of others in provincial cities such as Arak, Isfahan, Mazandaran, Rasht, Shiraz and Tabriz. The internet hummed with tales of opposition protests, replete with videos and photographs. It was hard, however, to assess the size of the crowds.
Mehdi Karroubi, a cleric who ran for president and has since been one of the most outspoken critics of Mr Ahmadinejad’s government since his disputed re-election, made an appearance in Tehran but left swiftly as his car and guards were attacked by security forces. Other opposition leaders were unable—or were not allowed—to appear. Mir Hossein Mousavi, who is popularly thought to have really won the election, was said to have visited a cultural centre but was surrounded by security forces. Muhammad Khatami, a former reformist president who backs the opposition, was unseen. All the same, without the backing of bigwigs, the government’s foes poured on to the streets.
Death to nobody!
As before, the police and the baseej, a vigilante force that backs Mr Ahmadinejad and answers to the powerful Revolutionary Guard, came out in strength too. Protesters were beaten, arrested and drenched with tear gas. Some chanted “death to the dictator”, often shouting accusations that Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Iran’s supreme leader, was a murderer. Others, in a new twist of sloganeering, cried “Death to nobody!” At the official rallies celebrating the taking of the American hostages, American and Israeli flags were burned as usual. But footage of the opposition demonstrations shows posters of Mr Khamenei’s bearded face being stamped on.
So the image of Iran’s official leaders is still being tarnished in the lingering post-election turmoil. The protests are unlikely to bring the government down, but its legitimacy is being questioned in a way that was once unthinkable.
The top echelons of politics and the clergy are riven with dissent. The day before the celebration of the siege, Hossein Ali Montazeri, a grand ayatollah now aged 87 who was once the heir apparent of the Islamic republic’s founder, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, said that the occupation of the American embassy in 1979 had been a mistake.
Such divisions may partly be causing Iran’s government to equivocate in the face of the West’s latest proposals for solving the dispute over Iran’s nuclear plans. In a statement issued on the anniversary, Barack Obama said America did not wish to interfere in Iran’s internal affairs. But he stressed that, while his fist was still unclenched, the onus was on Iran to grasp it. Instead, Mr Khamenei once again lambasted America for its attitude to Iran’s nuclear programme.
|
” |
~String
|
|
|
11-06-09, 07:36 PM
|
#2
|
|
|
|
|
Best of luck to the people of Iran- They're certainly not as inscrutable and scary as we've been led to believe in the USA.
Last edited by hypewaders; 11-06-09 at 09:19 PM..
|
|
spidergoat
It's all about the hexagons (29,191 posts)
|
|
11-06-09, 07:41 PM
|
#3
|
|
|
|
|
Even the Iranians think their rulers suck. They know the disastrous road the current regime is going down. I only hope they succeed in changing things for the better. Their history of revolution is encouraging.
Last edited by spidergoat; 11-07-09 at 11:27 AM..
Reason: revised for clarity
|
|
|
11-06-09, 09:02 PM
|
#5
|
|
|
|
“ |
Originally Posted by spidergoat
Even the Iranians think their rulers suck. They know the disastrous road they are going down. I only hope they succeed.
|
” |
“ |
Originally Posted by hypewaders
That's a mean thing to say (if you mean to wish further disaster on the people of Iran)- so mean it should be against forum rules. I think Persians are beautiful and fascinating, and I hope they have a nice velvet counter-revolution soon, with no foreign interests entangled.
|
” |
I don't think he meant that. I think he's speaking realistically. The road the country is on is ruinous. That part of this fact is the US and Europe (France has been no wallflower as of late, in this dance). But, the fact is, Iran isn't a very successful nation right now.
My hope? That these protesters get what they are after. A peaceful transition to democracy.
~String
|
|
|
11-06-09, 09:26 PM
|
#6
|
|
|
|
|
Sorry Spidergoat, I misread the last 2 sentences in Post #3, and primarily took the opposite meaning [success in disaster]. I should have known better than to think you would say that. A more open (but legitimately-conceived) government in Iran would of course be a wonderful thing. Iran would flourish back in the open- they're not a people accustomed to nor happy in imposed isolation (not that anyone is).
I'm a little bit sensitive about hopes for new freedom in Iran, because I worry about a kiss of death from the USA: My country and Israel have both got to stay far from the Iranian opposition, if it is to have a real chance in the near term. I am concerned that Israel and the USA (or players therewith) may be considering throwing a wrench into things, as has occurred in Iran and other countries before. Given the volume of Anti-Americanism in currency, it would be easy and effective to implicate Iranian dissident leaders convincingly as US agents.
Our (US and Israeli) mobilizations and strategics at present hinge substantially on the assumption of a menacing and expansionistic Iranian theocracy. After scattering al-Qaeda and bungling our WMD hoax, Iran is our last credible Golem in the region. If Iran experiences another quantum shift or velvet revolution, it may seem to raise the level of uncertainty for those who envision long-term adversarial plans and exploits involving Iran in the future. Maybe it's mostly from my younger years in Lebanon, but I believe there are places in the world that are too often not allowed to live in peace, because conflicts are career-builders for ambitious and misanthropic players on the geopolitical stage/back-stage.
Last edited by hypewaders; 11-06-09 at 09:57 PM..
|
|
p-brane
Registered Senior User (126 posts)
|
|
11-08-09, 01:01 AM
|
#7
|
|
|
|
“ |
Originally Posted by hypewaders
...the people of Iran...They're certainly not as ...scary as we've been led to believe in the USA.
|
” |
Can you give us an example of this?
|
|
|
11-08-09, 03:32 AM
|
#9
|
|
|
|
“ |
Originally Posted by S.A.M.
Iranians take to the street all the time [as do many other people in the Middle East]. Its interesting to see which occasions make the western press. Be interesting to know what the original news sources were.
|
” |
The Iranian street protests have been heavily covered by the west, contrary to your remarks. What IS a story is the fact that the Iranians are protesting against their government in such large numbers.
~String
|
|
|
11-08-09, 07:07 AM
|
#10
|
|
|
|
“ |
Originally Posted by superstring01
The Iranian street protests have been heavily covered by the west, contrary to your remarks. What IS a story is the fact that the Iranians are protesting against their government in such large numbers.
~String
|
” |
Could you tell me on which occasions other than the elections and this one, that Iranians have poured into the streets this year? Which has been heavily covered in the western media?
|
|
mike47
Registered Senior User (1,842 posts)
|
|
11-08-09, 07:53 AM
|
#13
|
|
|
|
“ |
Originally Posted by S.A.M.
Did you see the ones in the anti-US rally last week?
100 people were detained
You see that?
|
” |
Iran constantly presents demonstrations against both the USA and Israel but the Western media ignore them and mark them as propaganda .
As far as the past presidential elections are concerned they show a drastic division in how the country should be governed .
|
|
|
11-08-09, 01:58 PM
|
#16
|
|
|
|
“ |
Originally Posted by S.A.M.
Did you see the ones in the anti-US rally last week?
100 people were detained
You see that?
|
” |
It's not all that impressive when the crowds protest what the government wants. Would sort of be like pointing out all those people cheering for the Nazi regime and trying to sell it as proof of freedom of expression.
~String
|
|
StrawDog
disseminated primatemaia (1,855 posts)
|
|
11-08-09, 03:28 PM
|
#19
|
|
|
|
“ |
Originally Posted by hypewaders
I'm a little bit sensitive about hopes for new freedom in Iran, because I worry about a kiss of death from the USA: My country and Israel have both got to stay far from the Iranian opposition, if it is to have a real chance in the near term. I am concerned that Israel and the USA (or players therewith) may be considering throwing a wrench into things, as has occurred in Iran and other countries before. Given the volume of Anti-Americanism in currency, it would be easy and effective to implicate Iranian dissident leaders convincingly as US agents.
|
” |
Yes sadly. There are certainly signatures of US influence and pursuit of democracy at play. We all know how these initiatives end.
“ |
Our (US and Israeli) mobilizations and strategics at present hinge substantially on the assumption of a menacing and expansionist Iranian theocracy. After scattering al-Qaeda and bungling our WMD hoax, Iran is our last credible Golem in the region.
|
” |
If the Hizbullāh entry into the Lebanon government of unity does not shift focus. 
“ |
If Iran experiences another quantum shift or velvet revolution, it may seem to raise the level of uncertainty for those who envision long-term adversarial plans and exploits involving Iran in the future. Maybe it's mostly from my younger years in Lebanon, but I believe there are places in the world that are too often not allowed to live in peace, because conflicts are career-builders for ambitious and misanthropic players on the geopolitical stage/back-stage.
|
” |
Sadly yes, and I agree. Long term observation of key indicators around US & Co. foreign policy regarding Iran seem to point to disaster. Iran can do nothing that is deemed acceptable to US & Co. There is consistent selective media hyping as SAM pointed out, with the election and nuclear issue having made and still making regular and sustained Western Corp Media news broadcasts. As opposed to the selective good news around the obviously fraudulent Afghan elections. 
|
|
|
11-08-09, 06:30 PM
|
#20
|
|
|
|
“ |
Originally Posted by superstring01
The unrest in Iran continues.
|
” |
"Unrest" looks more like a street protest, all this proves to me is that Iran is not the suppressive society that America constantly portrays it.
|
|
