Star Wars vs Star Trek

20 year old Bird of Prey. It was retired in the 2350's because of a faulty cloaking device. The actually weaponry on the ship was not faulty or bad.

Still, a Galaxy-class starship should have been able to destroy that ship without the use of Treknobabble. Unfortunately, Riker was in command.

As for the Voth argument, I will just leave it at this: They are the only race that could possibly evade the Empire. And, if they were to be against running, I personally think that they could be the leading scientists for the Empire in everything but weaponry.

 

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Actually in quantum physics the ship slingshots around the sun but is always moving straight forward, it is the gravity of the sun that pulls it into a curve.

I know it sounds silly, but i take Hawkins at his word here.

Also you will note that the slightest error is time travel computations is certain death as your ship is torn apart by the stress. Hell even successful computation may kill you if the ship is not tough enough. Finally only one person in Star trek history has performed those computations, and he's currently playing Ambassador to the Romulans.

 

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how about those misses in RoTJ. those ships were relatively slow moving thowards eachother.

the firing in ST5 does nor say how ot if is computed aided.

 

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Actually in quantum physics the ship slingshots around the sun but is always moving straight forward, it is the gravity of the sun that pulls it into a curve.

I know it sounds silly, but i take Hawkins at his word here.

Also you will note that the slightest error is time travel computations is certain death as your ship is torn apart by the stress. Hell even successful computation may kill you if the ship is not tough enough. Finally only one person in Star trek history has performed those computations, and he's currently playing Ambassador to the Romulans.[/QUOTE]

the point of the argument is they can use warp drive while near strong gravity wells. even in planetary atmoshpere. voyager used it inside a singularity. the gravity afects the trajectory, no the propulsion. and they have changed their course while in warp so all the course corections would be a minor task.

 

I thought the Duras sisters had fired thru the cloak?

*ponders* Wait, is this where they destroyed the Enterprise? While Picard was in the rift? (Generations I think?)

 

Actually in quantum physics the ship slingshots around the sun but is always moving straight forward, it is the gravity of the sun that pulls it into a curve.

I know it sounds silly, but i take Hawkins at his word here.

Also you will note that the slightest error is time travel computations is certain death as your ship is torn apart by the stress. Hell even successful computation may kill you if the ship is not tough enough. Finally only one person in Star trek history has performed those computations, and he's currently playing Ambassador to the Romulans.[/QUOTE]

So NOW scott tries to play the physics card?

Scott, if this were true the way you describe, then we could indeed warp in circles around a planet... just warp in a way that puts us along the peremeter of the strongest high-orbit gravitational belt

 

Actually if I remember the episode in question they used warp, but had to plot many minijumps in order not to stress the hull. I am not say they can't, I am just saying it's not something they lightly do. After all stress cracks can build up over time. You might be good doing it 100 times but 101 might be the time the nacelles keep going and leave your ship behind.

 

They were firing on fighters. Everytime Capship fired on Capship they hit. Capships aiming at Fighter was dicey.

Are you telling me you saw no animated crosshairs? You saw no ranging information? You saw now scan information? You saw no HUD? There was just a painted on crosshair in your version of the movie.

 

I think you should note this was only successfully done a single handfull of times and was considered almost suicide each time. It's the intense gravity of a star that is needed and even then it puts unbearable strain on the vessel. It's never been done outside of the incidents where Mr. Spock was plotting the course.

In other words it's just not something you can repeat on demand.

 

That's not my point. My point is that any SW ship hull (varying on ship type), is significantly weaker than their ST ship counterparts.

 

We have actually seen the complete opposite of this.

We know that a GCS hull would bend under it's own weight in 1G if not for it structural integrity field. Conversely the Acclamator transport ship can easily land on a 1.1g world and take off again.

The largest Fedetation vessle is 700 meters, the largest SW vessel that is not cassified a space station is 2000 meters. Now even a child can tell you that you need stronger material to build a 2000meter structure than you do a 700 meter structure.

When objects collide with ST vessels they plow deeply in and sometime fly right through the hul without slowing down. When object collide with a SW vessel the explode on the surface like chalk thrown at a brickwall.


Every bit of evidence points to ST having weaker hulls than SW.

 

On an old BoP or a Constellation class, yeah.

For something like an Intrepid, Venture, Nova, or Sovereign (sleeker designs) it probably wouldn't be...

 

no not that episode with the weapons test poligon. i'm talking for the one with the singularity.

at least 3 HTLs are seen firing from the ISD2, we see one confirmed hit and one confirmed miss )on the Calamaru). the rebels fire several times. one ends up directly in the base of the tower and desroys the ISD2.

i can't read Klingon

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besides i see crosshair and data info on the tie=fighters and x-wings yet their lasers are fired manualy (fixed mounts). the huds on the modern jets have pipeline and crosshair aiming augments and yet their fixed cannons are still unguided.

 

in red...

 

Also, Scott, Voyager was suffering no structural damage from the warp jumps she was making... the fact that she was in a goddamned BLACK HOLE might have had SOMETHING to do with it... I want to see, say, an X-wing or a mon-cal cruiser, or even a ISD survive THAT!

 

These two images show approx what ANY hostile Star Wars ship would encounter in an engagement with the Federation and then Fed / Klingon /Romulan defensive fleets, respectively

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All I have to say is... ouch, that would hurt a might bit. That's a LOT of phaser, disruptor, photon, quantum, pulse phaser, and plasma fire... not to mention polaron torpedoes, plasma torpedoes, and other various fun weapons we dont' see used as much

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1. even i child can tell you that all that you'll need a cubic-increse of straingt to compensate. in other words a ship 2 times larger in terms of volume will need 8 times stronger construction frame just to retain the same structural strainght as the smaller vessel.
2. when objects explode on impact in SW, they both turn into tiny bits instantly. makes me think SW ships are made of some volatile material.
3.the landing sequence shows the oposite.

 

I will attempt to revitalize the Dune supremacy in this thread. I read the first 50 pages and then check what was said in the last year in support of Dune; Star Wars and Star Trek proponents have overlooked the Dune universe for quite awhile now it seems.

I bring back up the Holtzman Shields:

A) I compare lazguns with lasers/turbolaser and phasers; all of them operate under the same premise but just in different manners. They operate at different levels of the light spectrum with different energies to power them.

B) Holtzman Shields react negatively when they come into contact with lazguns, it can be deduced that the same principles would apply to phasers or laser/turbolasers. (The idea behind it is that they react at the subatomic level and can cause a like release of energy in either the shield point or the point of fire; the possibility of this can be explained by quantum theory if you wish ie, wave forms and particle forms etc.)

C) At the end of Book 8 the Machine Empire and the Human empire of the Dune Universe are united.

D) Suicide "drone ships" could be sent against either fleet (Star Wars or Star Trek) utilizing Holtzman shielding and draw fire for the specific purpose of destroying the enemy fleets.

This would result in devastating losses to the Star Wars or Star Trek fleets, the machines, of course, can afford the expense due to their propensity for efficiency.

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Edit:
There are, of course, benign spectrums of light that are allowed to pass through the shields, otherwise the ship could not see outside of their own shields. The Holtzman shield reaction must only happen with directed beam weapons. Note: A transporter beam would likely fit this category but that is only a conjecture... tell me your thoughts on the possible interaction of transporter beams and holtzman shielding.

 

Dune would get roasted for one simple reason - Torpedoes. A solid object, fired at high speed, with a warp engine. All systems shutdown upon proximity to the shield - once past the shield, it detonates on bare hull.

And thus ends the Dune debate again

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In all honesty, LazGuns would be quickly adapted to and rendered worthless, and their shields would be of no use should, say, a Plasma Torpedo or a Hellbore Cannon impact the ship - those work on the kinetic energy of a high-power implosion to crush the offending ship.