Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

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Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    13,938
    The Borg would turn the DS into a new Unimatrix

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  3. Nexarc Troper In Training Registered Senior Member

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    139
    This is has the most sense that I have ever seen regarding the power levels. If SW ships actually do use that much power yet have barely any output, what is the point of using such bad weaponary?

    Phasers were chosen over lasers and plasma cannons in ST because they are more efficient and more destructive for the same power imput. Shouldn't the GFFA have done something similar in the thousands of years their societies have been around?
    Didn't shipboard phasers change from canons and banks to arrays just to address those problems? An omni-directional weapon array across a hull could cover a larger firing area than a turrent fixed to a single spot on the hull. It also would seem harder to hit and disable an imbedded strip than an exposed turrent.
     
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  5. Nexarc Troper In Training Registered Senior Member

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    139
    and probably increase the power levels to actually match the figures warsies claim.

    "That's no moon....IT'S A GIANT BORG SPHERE!"
     
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  7. Lord Vasago bcd Registered Senior Member

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    827
    the eclipe ssd has a superlaser and it is way way smaller then the ds.
     
  8. Lord Vasago bcd Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    827
    yet 6 torps take down your warpcore ffs
     
  9. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, when? In ST: Nemesis? You're also talking about a ship with more weapons than all of Philadelphia! The Scimitar was BUILT TO HUNT THE ENTERPRISE.
     
  10. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    Yah but when they use it theyre practically at a dead stop or moving very slowly.
     
  11. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    Yah but it is still infinitely larger than 9 fighter ships.
     
  12. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    photon torpedos =/= proton torpedos.
     
  13. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    Yay i said something shmart

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  14. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    I do not think that there is one redeeming factor in the death star that the brog would or could use.

    Maybe the fact that it is filled with people ripe for assimilation...
     
  15. Nexarc Troper In Training Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    139
    The eclipse superlaser is said to be as strong as one of the death star's component beams. Probably enough to damage a small continent, but not strong enough to destroy the planet. A few tri-cobalt detonations can achieve a similar affect.
    True, yet the borg can see the DS itself as an addition to the borg fleet or as raw material for a few cubes. They would assimilate a ship and its crew if they had the time and energy to do so.
     
  16. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    I doubt they would add the DS to their fleet, because under its own power the damn thing moves way too slow to be of any use.

    I could definitely see them making it into some cubes, anyways, they wouldnt use the death star. Its pretty much against everything the borg beleive in. ie, look at their weapons "cutting beams" "tractor beams", they were made to capture and slice apart enemy ships, they werent made to destroy everything they saw because its not in their nature. The DS has only one purpose and that is to destroy, the borg are wholey against destruction, they only use it when necessary, just look at the way they act, they dotn attack unless provoked, and their ships not only scan the enemy ships first, but they even send out a message telling the enemy ship to surrender and they even declare their intentions, theyre not the type to run into a battle guns ablazing.
     
  17. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    yah but it takes two inferior torps to take down your death star ffs.
     
  18. alpinedigital Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    370
    well played. Genius idea to have an access port to the core of both death stars.
     
  19. Lord Vasago bcd Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    827
    Those inferior torps as you call them did not destroy the ds. they made the core explode resulting in the destrution of the ds. that is not the same.

    the exhaust vent is replaced on the ds2.

    the six torps in Nemesis totally overlaoded the warpcore of the enterprise. making it allmost defenceless.
     
  20. Lord Vasago bcd Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    827
    agreed but then again the suncrusher is piloted by one person way way smaller then 9 ships and it destroys suns.
     
  21. Lord Vasago bcd Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    827
    the Scimitar was not built to hunt down the enterprise it was build to destroy the UFP;

    and even if it has more weapons the philadelphia it still took only 6 torps to bring down the enterprise. if he fired two more she would be debri.
     
  22. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    First off, Replicators are immune to Asgard and perhaps Ancient energy weapons. Claiming that all energy weapons fail against them is a no limits fallacy.

    Not really, I seem to recall the Goa'uld ships being rated with 100-200 megatons. Photon torpedoes easily reach this and probably surpass it, given that Enterprise era ships were using 50 MT antimatter warheads and still utterly failed to take out a TOS Constitution class with four to one odds.

    An an uprated Connie pretty much got raped by a 24th century mining ship, so what does that tell you?

    Yes, because it's not like those planets are defended by starships, starbases, and satelite defense--oh wait they are.

    More still, those planets are shielded.

    It's pretty bad when Stargate's best answer of defeating the enemy is running with their tail between their legs.

    You do realize that the federation has thousands of ships, right?

    You mean the things that don't cause nuclear explosions when targeted at humans? Why, how very curious. I wonder what would happen if they met a material 23x more powerful than diamond.


    Actually, there wasn't really anything special about Kes aside from the fact that she was taught to control her powers by Tuvok. Logically, any of her race taught by him or someone similar would recieve the same power.

    Not that it really matters.

    So why is it that neither Yoda nor Windu never did any of this? Throughout the prequels we see they've never attempted to do anything similar to this. Nor do we see it in the actual clone wars when it would have been useful. That time when those three CIS frigates entered the system and attacked the ship, what did he do? Did he send them flying back? No, he had them launch all the escape pods and used his force ability to alter the tracjectory of that pod to avoid bolts (not that he really needed any help given the shitty accuracy--even the droids were complaing about how much they suck).



    You do know that a 29th century officer thought that Voyager's warpcore had caused an explosion large enough to take out the entire Sol system, right?

    No you don't. We've seen in Enterprise and Voyager that simply sticking nanoprobes into a consol or a piece of hardware will quickly start assimilating it. Hell, the Borg were able to make a ship that couldn't go past Warap 1.4 to reach warp 3.9 in a matter of days. Not to mention said unarmed ship was able to tango with a fully armed 22nd century warship.


    Hmm yes, like those pesky teddybears with those spears and stones. How could anyone hope to combat that? Or those deadly battle droids that think marching in rows at the enemy is an effective and effecient strategy when the enemy as automatic plasma weapons.

    Or the guys who don't spot said army until they are right on top of them.


    Yes, like the...and the...or how about...come to think of it, what is more advanced about the Empire? Their hyperdrive and communications? Why two advantages.

    I'm always amazed at how you just lie through your teeth. Your ICS wank was disproven multiple times. Or are you prepared to explain how an asteroid field acts as a good shield against three Venator class ships then?


    Which has shown ten times the firepower of an Imperial warship.

    Which is why there was no massive explosions when in two instances, capital ships engaged each other in atmosphere and there were no massive nuclear explosions.

    Yes, but unfortunately, SW forces use energy weapons--which the borg can adapt to.

    Did we also mention that the Borg resist multiple antimatter warheads moving at incredible speeds?



    Ignoring the fact that they don't know where Earth is? Also, not to mention that the Death Star is nothing more than a weapon of terror and given the immense level of stupidity shown by the characters, they wouldn't at all find anything wrong with a bunch of ships approaching them.

    Which would be all the more gut wrenching funny when a full volley of torpedoes lock onto that rather large exhaust port...

    Sorry, the Emperor said it was the best legion. Either that means that the 501st is not the best or that they're the 501st. In fact, Battle Front II goes all out and says it's the 501st.

    Yes, because that's what people are complaining about. That they were heavily outnumbered--oh wait, it was the fact that they all started chasing the rebels and the carebears back into the forest to be anally raped.

    Keep trying, I don't think you've deluded yourself enough. Sorry, but when god damn stone age enemies overwhelm space age soldiers, we have a problem. Even more so because it wasn't that the troopers were overwhelmed, but that they were complete and utter morons for running into a forest where they could be picked off.

    Which is exactly what happend.

    No there wasn't. We barely saw dozens of them at a time. In fact, they would overtake the storm troopers because again, the idiots were stupid enough to leave the area around their bunker to chase the rebels into the forest, despite it being an obvious trap.

    Their ships can detect changes in the time line and can pinpoint the exact year, date, and hour.

    Try again.

    You also don't see thousands of Ewoks, so yeah I agree.

    G canon > T Canon > C canon

    Yours falls under the lowest one there. Nowhere in T or G do we see that stuff, not even performed by the most powerful Jedi Master; Yoda.

    Why is it that SW fans run to ICS and multiple wanky Jedi feats that go against higher canon when they know full well the contradictions?


    No, they are taken down by MT weapons. You can't get anything higher with fusion level warheads. And then of course, there was that incident in Halo 3 with a falling piece of rock punching right through a Covenant cruiser like it was made of paper. Or the fact that in Halo Wars, we see that non-MT level weapon is more than enough to damage a Covenant ship and the UNSC colony ship turned warship.


    Post Nemesis sounds good.


    Keep mastubating to that. They already had all the tools and systems put in to build that second station. Remember how the first one took almost two decades? Oh right, forgot about that one didn't you?

    Not to mention building a massive station is retarded because it cuts back on what you can put out as far as your fleet is concerned.


    You are aware that the Borg don't just beam down and start sticking people right? They literally tear out chunks of your cities and assimilate them. And sorry, fusion doesn't have the power to produce that sort of effect.

    Or more likely it caused a chain reaction on the ring.

    If only because SW ships pretty much do use pea shooters that rarely extend past 10 MT.

    And if we want to pit uber races against each other, we can all laugh while the 31st UFP turns the Forerunner planet into a molten ball of lead centuries before they even evolve.

    The Borg don't really care that much about Earth, as seen in Voyager where we're told that they often test new methods of assimilation on targets around the same level as the UFP.



    They took the entire output of the Enterprise D without breaking a sweat before going off to rape 39 starships. Even when sitting in orbit, their ship can generate GT level energy.


    Yes, and most of those planets are habited by small, dirt cities filled with thousands of people at best. Even more so, if there are so many of these planets, why are there in fact, only a few thousand senator seats in the Empire?

    Bullshit, no SW planet has ever shown that. And sorry, but a VFX error on a planet doesn't count as a shield. Provide actual quotes of a shield, because the largest one was a theater shield.

    No they don't. It was stated in the RotS novel that the weapons that could be seen from the planetside coiuld destroy a small town...10 Mt max. Empire Strikes Back had about .5-3 MT for their weapons against the asteroids and of course, we see that in Downfall of a Droid that Anakin's plan of eradicating Grievous's asteroid field defense plan doesn't consist of just shooting at them, since using asteroids to protect yourself against 200 GT firepower is like using a box of sparkles and tossing them in the way of a tank shell.

    Nor do we see such power in Jedi Crash, where the bolts are exploding in the atmosphere and we in fact see both clones, droids, and jedi fighting in open atmosphere with no horrible side effects that one would normally attribute to multi-gt weapons going off in the atmosphere.


    You mean the armor that can't resist asteroid impacts or the firepower from Clone War era walkers that have tank level firepower? Sorry, but high level MT easily trumps that.

    You mean the shields of multiple frigates that fall against about two dozen of fighters in a matter of minutes in Storm over Ryloth?


    Granted.

    The UFP has about 60,000+ capital ships.

    And the borg have a mine that can disperse nanoprobes over an entire solar system in seconds.

    Based on what?


    Because they're morons?:shrug:

    Now how about you actually prove those numbers.

    Which works like jack shit when a solid object passes through them. Have the SW world ever heard of torpedoes or bombs? The carpet bombing the CIS did in Ryloth would have been more than enough.

    The Death Star was a secret project that required a ground base emitter to protect it--an emitter that couldn't even project part of that shield over the base.


    Prove that they didn't have a full theater shield. We see in multiple examples that solid objects pass through shields. We saw it in The Clone Wars movie, during the Clone Wars (the one after Jedi Crash), and the Phantom Menace.


    Which has nothing to do with their ability to think, but just the way they think. The borg don't really notice visitors because of how pathetically small they are in comparison to the Borg. The borg have trillions of minds working together and you think it fears seven minds wandering about?

    The Borg's "slow ass warp" allowed Voyager to cross 20,000 LY in what is no more than a day. And their network of transwarp hubs allow them to cross about 25,000 LY in minutes.

    A target that any UFP torpedo could lock onto and hit with ease, as seen in Final Frontier.

    Against underpowered Rebel ships, suggesting that 10- Mt firepower couldn't stop it. However, torpeodes with at least 10x the firepower is a different story.

    And again, how often do the Borg choose to send in drones? The answer is rarely, often only for investigation. The drones themselves stay on the ship as they tear your cities and starships apart.

    Go fuck yourself, since you clearly don't understand how the Borg work or why.

    Already explained above.



    No it wouldn't. It would take days. Try again.

    Yes, if they hadn't acted like complete and utter morons, they would have won.

    ...You are prowars, right?

    The Borg were temporarely disrupted by an advanced future virus that they adapted to later, as we saw with their sphere still being able to keep going.

    No they can't.

    First of all, we've almost never seen a large engagment in Star Wars. The largest battle during the Clone Wars series thus far includes about a dozen ships. The largest we've seen the UFP pull off is about 600 and the borg are said to be able to gather thousands of ships for an all out invasion.

    And again, 20,000 LY in a day. It would take the Borg less than a week to cross the galaxy.



    Or more likely, eight out of ten of those people will miss horribly given that even Clones can miss slow moving targets stalking towards them from about ten feet away. You then have two drones going down and then the rest adapting. After cornering the idiots, the Borg assimilate them and you have 18 drones instead of 10.

    Or even more likely, the Borg tear out the ground that the idiots are standing on and drag them up to be assimilated.


    The Empire lost to a bunch of Rebels who were inferior to them. The borg easily surpass the 10 MT yields of the Empire by a more than comfortable margin and we know that the Borg have millions of ships, most of which we see to be cubes and spheres. Even spheres themselves overpower UFP ships with ease.

    The Empire is so fucked it isn't even funny.

    Assuming they could scratch the paint? Probably. Given they can't? Not really.

    No, not really. The Empire is more dickish than the Dominion.

    No, you made claims and backed up nothing.



    The Borg aren't launching a massive invaison at Earth. How much do you understand that they don't really care? A full out invasion consists of hundreds to thosuands of ships. Do you not see a problem when the Borg keep sending one or two cubes to Earth?



    Yes, an RTS game means your an expert in warefare.:m:

    Now, as for your argument, I've already pointed to the 20,000 LY issue.

    And you have to wonder what kind of idiot decides to sacrifice those much in terms of ships just to build a massive space station.

    We've seen the Borg use them at least a few times without problem. Seven even points one at Chakotay in Scorpion. Another firest at 8472 in the same episode and damages the wall behind it.
     
  23. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    And is loss within a black hole.

    Of course, the UFP can pretty much blow apart stars thanks to a certain scientist, and they can do it with their standard torpedo cases. No special ship required.
     
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