Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

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Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,493
    This is after Antaran's pictures.
     
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  3. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

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    1,493
    There is diffrent types of ships.
    Transports

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    Frigates

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    And Mon Carmiri Crusiers, Your right there is three sorry.

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  5. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

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    1,099
    Yes, I've said that.

    Basicly, they would have had to make two batches. One at the start, and three years later, so as to make it ready within the third year of the war.

    That still means it takes ten years to grow million soldiers.




    Again, you have realtively no evidence of this. All of it is based upon speculation. Furthermore, wasn't Luke wanting to become a pilot for the Empire? Wouldn't that suggest they've allowed for others save for the clones to join the Imperial ranks?

    In fact, the Storm Troopers in A New Hope don't even sound like Jango at all.



    Although the Clone Troopers are competent, their ability to take on a vastly higher numbered amount of droids is mostly due to the exceptional lack of competency among the droids. A Mech droid outsmarted to battle droids, and most of the foot soldiers have proven to be nothing short of incompetent idiots. Hell, the ones in Phantom Menace didn't even bother to lock up, or even tie the fighter pilots and decided to keep them in the fighter bay.


    No they aren't. It was stated that 26 ISDs, and one SSD was more than enough to overpower the Rebel Fleet, which was a focus of all their forces to destroy the second Death Star. The admiral himself stated they wouldn't last very long at close range with Star Destroyers, and they only did it because the Death Star wouldn't fire at them with the Imperial Fleet being so close.

    Again, the problem with the Rebels was that they were hard to find, not because they held a strong military presence.

    Likely how half the system was? In fact, we also know that Alderaan was a peaceful planet, and that there was a strong resistance against building an army for the protection of their government. That again, proves my point that SW races are docile. No one wanted an army, no one wanted blood on their hands, and they all wanted to talk it out.

    In fact, even with Trade Federation ships orbiting her planet, the Queen again pushed for peace. The idea of using fighters to ward of an attacker, despite being invaded, was appalling to them.



    You mean the Senate that has no actual military backing at all? So basicly, they only have a small police force, which is basicly the Jedi, and they managed to keep the peace, despite being heavily outnumbered.

    And yet we only see a few hundred of them at best, not thousands of soldiers. And again, you fail to comprehend the point I am making.

    During a war, you are going to be losing ships. And thus, you need to replace them, as well as trying to build more ships to overpower the enemy. Now, during the start of the Clone Wars, both sides had realtively no actual army for a grand war. Count Dooku and his buddies were focusing mostly on building the Death Star in secret in order to overpower the Senate and the government to its knees. This was foiled by Ben when he discovered that Dooku was doing bad things.

    This eventually led to a battle, and the beginning of the war. This meant that both sides had to build their army. Despite the fact that the CIS were a few steps ahead, they still didn't have enough of an army to overrun the Republic before they could get their million soliders into action, as they would have. Given their FTL speeds, it should have been plausible. And yet it never happened.

    Alright, then what are the Chiss, as per mentioned in the Clone Wars cartoon?

    That's nice. Except those cruisers hold less firepower, and are facing a group about 90% ISDs, outnumber them, and the remaining 10% goes to the SSD, which is suppposedly much stronger.

    How exactly was this supposed to be a military threat again?

    ...Then there wouldn't be a reason for a overly massive fleet, now would there? And sorry to say, but that sounds a bit like bullshit to me, since the Star Destroyers were taking heavy damage during the battle above Coruscant.

    And yet, we saw that the Jedi did it just fine for thousands of years with just 20,000 knights. A million would be overkill by that comparison.
     
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  7. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

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    HTL don't have that range, only Long Range Turbolasers does.
     
  8. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    That makes no sense at all. HTLs are exceptionally large, and would be the only ones seen from the planet's surface. It doesn't mean that the HTL bolt would have to hit the planet, just that it could vaporize a small town.

    And second of all, this again makes no sense. The only way for a HTL to stop moving is if it burns itself out, or it hits something. There is no reason to believe that this would happen before it hit a planet. This is because, the larger the bolt is, the more energy it has. And that means, the longer it will sustain itself. If a LRTL is better in range than an HTL, that means that LRTLs are stronger, not the other way around.

    Logically, LRTLs are named as such because they are more accurate and are faster.

    And furthermore, you haven't yet proven the existence of LRTLs, or that an HTL doesn't have that kind of range.

    Basicly, you have no argument.
     
  9. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,493
    I agree, it must be some weird substance.










    You misunderstood, I ment that the shields for the ship aren't even on.The Generators are in the protection of the shields. All due to overestimation.

    Yes two kilometer long warship crashed in Clone Wars, both have shields on. Only half the ship is destoryed and they had time to abandon ship.
     
  10. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    Well, there's also the fact that it belongs in EU, and thus isn't canon by any stretch of the imagination.



    ...so, the shields were off? For what reasons?

    Those aren't really effective shields then. It took three rammings to down a Vor'cha Klingon Battlecruiser.
     
  11. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    An HTL has the longest range of any Capital Ship Mounted Energy Weapon. Only Assault Concussion Missles have superior range as tactical weapons. Strategic weapons like the Resonance Torpedo, Galaxy gun, and Superlaser all have superior range, but are mounted on Starbases.
     
  12. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    okay. The problem with using NCC Numbers in order to guestimate how many ships are produced by Starfleet is that most ship names come with a set NCC Number. The Enterprise is always 1701, Excalibur is always 1707, Constitution is always 1307, Defiant is always 2000, and so on. For non legendary ship names the numbers seem to be a codified stardate of completion. It's the only number scheme that seems to match up at all. Of course it could be as simple quasi random identification number to help trip up counterfeits.

    This only makes sense as the numbers some are assuming posting it would have taken Decades before the Federation had to worry over attrition in the Dominion wars. Not to mention the ships sent to Wolf 359 should have numbered in the hundreds, not to mention in First Contact.
     
  13. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    The nuetronium question in SW armor. Since the novels specifcally mention it several times and the movies do not refute it the nuetronium stands. Just like the supposed nadion effects of Phasers. It's just the rules of the game.
     
  14. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,493
    They overestimated their chances.



    Two battleships the same size, it is a impressive that both ships surrived, well half surrived. And the CIS Cruiser just came out of hyperspace.
     
  15. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,493
    Mistaken, long range turbolasers have the best range, but less firepower.
     
  16. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    Only legendary ships have their registry repeated. The only ships that have been proven to do that are the Enterprise and Defiant line. These are clearly exceptions to the rules.
     
  17. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    Scott? Remember what I said about that quote?

    Of course, even if this bullshit was true, you'd still have problems with the fact that it doesn't act anything like neutronium.

    And nadions are mentioned as part of phasers in Star Trek episodes, not just the manuals.

    Otherwise it would be out the window as well.
     
  18. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    So...what happened? Shield too weak? Shield was shot down? It didn't work? Too late?




    I see.
     
  19. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,493
    I have no idea where TW Scott got that idea from.
     
  20. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,493
    No, they thought the Rebels will never destroy them, so only the bridge shields are on. They were too late to turn them on.
     
  21. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Excuse me, but a Heavy TL has at least the range of any other TL and then some. Common sense here please.
     
  22. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Actually Excalibur has, Constitution has, Yamato, Excelsior and several others mentioned. However, like I said there is nothing that supports the ships being built at such a rate. in fact it goes against everything we see in the series.
     
  23. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Actually we are going by the rules of canon for each franchise. Lucasfilm policy states the the films override EU where the two disagree.

    As for acting like neutronium. did the Dyson sphere in "relic" act like nuetronium? Has any example in ST acted like what we consider nuetronium? Nope and Nope. So it is matters very little. It's said to be in there and acts no differently than the supposedly invulnerable nuetronium in ST so your screwed two times over.
     
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