An experiment in Atheism

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by S.A.M., Jun 23, 2007.

  1. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    These are not my assumptions, they are the assumptions of people who believe in science, inspite of the empiricism, the variance, the deviation, error, confidence intervals and levels of significance. Ultimately, its all about what you believe corroborates your assumptions and leads you to inferences which form the basis of your next assumption.

    Of course, common sense plays a large part in all this, but surely, we are not arguing on a subjective, unobservable, untestable, unrepeatable quality as the value of science?

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    Ta-Ta, gotta go now.
     
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  3. GhostofMaxwell. Banned Banned

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    I dont believe in science. You obviously either believe or dont believe, things are not that black and white.
     
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  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I believe we measure our perception using the scientific method and perceive the results as inferences.

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  7. GhostofMaxwell. Banned Banned

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    And thats all we can do. It's better than saying we cant infer anything so lets just sit here breaking rocks with a deer antler.
     
  8. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Yes lets have faith in ourselves instead and do the best we can with our limitations. That way we can move forward, sah?

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    Last edited: Jul 5, 2007
  9. GhostofMaxwell. Banned Banned

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    strong conclusions are conveinient but faith they are not.

    Why are you stuck in this mind-set that science needs absolutes?
     
  10. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    On the contrary, I am saying that it doesn't.

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  11. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    A common misunderstanding amongst theists who don't know what the scientific method entails. Inferences are based on circumstantial evidence and NOT observation.
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Really, how do you er assess the evidence without using your senses?
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2007
  13. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Ya I know all that, I'd like to know how you separate the scientific method from empiricism.

     
  15. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Jan Ardena:

    Comparing one witness to thousands is fairly obvious. One witness can easily be mistaken; with thousands that is less likely.

    When it comes to particular "scripture", things are on very shaky ground indeed. For example, all the Christian gospels were written decades after the death of Jesus. That alone leaves them very open to questioning. They are hardly eyewitness accounts.

    The same way I would deduce that sharks exist if I saw a shark.

    No, because you haven't shown that God told you there was an afterlife, and that the idea wasn't just made up by human beings.

    Because belief in God rests of faith rather than evidence?

    Yes.

    What song and dance? Atheists freely admit they don't believe God exists. That's the definition of "atheist".

    Some indoctrination is stronger than other indoctrination. I assume some Muslims doubt whether killing yourself will get you into paradise. Of course, if you truly believe suicide will get you eternal bliss, you'll do it, won't you?

    There are many different gods. Atheism involves not believing in any of them: Yahweh, Allah, Zeus, Shiva, etc. etc. There are also polytheistic religions, pantheistic religions and so on. Supernatural beings keeps things general. For non-belief in just the Christian God, for example, we can call a person "non-Christian". Obviously, a person can be non-Christian and yet not atheist. But they can't be atheist and believe in any god.
     
  16. Celpha Fiael within reason, I am superman Registered Senior Member

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    Dude, what are you doing asking here, go read The God Delusion. Here, I'll type you a praise from the back...

    "At last, one of the best nonfiction writers alive today has assembled his thoughts on religion into a characteristcally elegant book. If you think that science is just another religion, that religion is about our higher values, or that scientists are just as dogmatic as believers, then read this book and see if you can counter Dawkins's arguments. They are passionately stated and poetically expressed but are rooted in reason and evidence." - Steven pinker, Johnstone Professor, Harvard University.

    Sounds like just what you are looking for.
     
  17. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    James R,

    "Less likely" still doesn't make it true, which means we are back to square one again, so I conclude "a miracle of some sort" could not be counted as evidence of God, lest it be true, which means it doesn't matter how many people witness it.

    Evidence of Gods existence is not dependant on when the scriptures were written, plus the bible is not the only scripture.

    So when you say "some sort of miracle", you really mean God must show himself?

    I'm not sure what you mean by "...you haven't shown that God told you... ".
    What reasons would human beings have for making up an idea such as afterlife?

    Not necessarily. One can believe in God without faith, it all depends on how you define "believe in".

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    And theist don't believe God doesn't exist.
    What it boils down to, is that we believe either God exists, or doesn't exist. :bugeye:

    Whatever you truly believe, you will adhere to, but we're talking about muslims, and Islam.

    Why put Zeus and Shiva in the same category as Yahweh and Allah?
    God and gods, are two categories.

    But that's not what "theist" means, it means belief in God. You have taken it upon yourself to lump everything together, as if it doesn't matter.
    Everything is derived from "God" the Supreme Being, from whom everything emanatesm, even atheism.

    That is a modern teminology. A christian is a follower of Christ, period. Christ believed in the same Supreme Being that I mentioned earlier.

    Why not? It would depend on the "god" they believed in. Some atheists regard themselves as "naturalists", meaning they believe in nature, and nature is regarded as a personality in some religions.
    My understanding of wiccans/witches is that they believe in nature, not God.
    They profess that their magic is not of a supernatural nature, but nature itself. They are, imo, atheist.
    Satanists also fall into the category of atheism, or at least some types of satanists. Buddha talked about Lord Indra, the king of the demi-gods, and his abode, and his followers are classed as atheist.

    Jan.
     
  18. GhostofMaxwell. Banned Banned

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    You dont need to go nearly as far as that. Just evidence that a claimed miracle is seperate from chance and alternative explanation would be plenty.

    Wishful thinking would be one reason, I'm sure my fellow atheists can state many more.


    No. as that would not be belief in god now would it?




    Then you are a mislabeled agnostic.







    Then you are mislabeling them athiest.
     
  19. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    The obvious one is out of a fear of death.

    Not true - I am an atheist and have neither a belief in God's existence nor his non-existence.

    In what way? Or is this a case of "my god is better than your god"?
    You may label your one god "God", but God is still a god.

    No - it doesn't.
    It means a belief in one or more divinities.

    What you are referring to is oft called "Classical Theism" - so it is you who appears to be erroneously exluding the rest of the gods as if they don't matter.
     
  20. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Your explanation does not apply in this scenario, because it cannot determine whether or not God exists, or even that the miracles were indeed miracles, and not some random act of nature.
    Our belief would only be encouraged our own revelation, or the revelation of others, which brings us back to the same point again. Can you not see this?
    In other words science is not the tool or the method to decide whether God exists or not.

    Jan.
     
  21. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Sarkus,

    non-sequitor.

    I would say that's not true, by our conversations.

    That is pure ignorance.
    I suggest you read any scripture.;

    And where do all the divinities come from.
    Again read scriptures.

    You can give whatever name you like to it, but it means a belief in God period.

    Jan.
     
  22. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    GhostofMaxwell,

    And how would you conclude that God exists from such an event?

    No need to invent the afterlife for that.

    Why? Faith and belief are two different things. Faith is need to act upon your beliefs.

    Do any of these groups of people believing in God?

    Jan.
     
  23. GhostofMaxwell. Banned Banned

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    You said they believe in a deity but are still calling them atheist. That is mislabeling in my book.

    Atheism is the state of possessing zero belief in a supreme being.
     

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