Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

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Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    4,149
    Dig them out, scan them, and then we'll know who is bullshitting

    BTW you might save your effort and look here
     
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  3. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    4,149
    Any measurement dericved by observation of the film and application of what we know of chemistry, physics and science in geeral is most assuredly canon.

    By the way why do they call them phaser rifles when they aren't rifles? (Rifle actually being any firearm with rifling in the barrel.) Why do cars have style names? Why is there crest, colgate, and sensodyne, isn't it all just toothpaste?
     
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  5. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

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    1,265
    Not so fast TW Scott, don't make it look like he's making it all up. I have heard of this too, from someone who is very big into german engineering. Your physics are way off, from testimony of every one.
     
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  7. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

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    Phaser Rifle is a nickname given to the phaser (meaning it resembles a rifle), it is actually called a type-III phaser.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2007
  8. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    4,149
    Dude, you can't play that game, especially since the ICS is considered part of canon canon in Star Wars
     
  9. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

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    1,265
    And where do these numbers and designations come from? 12.5 gigaton turbolaser? Hmmmmmmmm?

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    Occording to physics? Most of your physics have been either justified or proven insane.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2007
  10. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

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    1,265
    ICS?
     
  11. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

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    1,265
    Don't make me say this, like all the ST fans on the thread before me, SW canon should only be from the films.
     
  12. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

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    1,265
    Lucas was on :m: when he devised the canon system just because there were only a few movies.
     
  13. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Seriously his use of the term mile is a dead give away. However it hardly matters to the discussion. Obviously SW has overcome this obstacle, hell for all we know the weapon could be partially plasma based, which given it's effect is more likely. Name means nothing, effect is everything.
     
  14. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

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    1,265
    WE'VE ALREADY JUSTIFIED THAT A TURBOLASER ISN'T A LASER!!!
     
  15. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,888
    Thanks, I have bookmarked the page. The four papers I read talk about cryo plant use, not weapons-grade lasers which was the subject of the one I have. And none give values (that I saw) for power loss while penetrating atmosphere.
     
  16. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Then why say it when you're wrong. I am an ST fan myself. Love the shows up until Enterprise totally walked in the face of Gene's vision. However facts are facts. Gene himself said very sucinctly ONLY the shows and movies are canon. Lucas has made comments that indicate that everything that SW EU is canon, however if he makes a movie what he decides supercedes EU in importance. He was also clear he did not think Videogames, several novels, and some comics lines should be canon at all.

    In the light of these things everyone else's opinion means exactly nothing. So just drop your argument there, it is just pathetic to resort to this bullshit.
     
  17. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    11,888
    Use of the term "mile"? How sinister of me

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    I use miles for distance. I convert figures for my own use... mea culpa.
     
  18. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,265
    I just don't see how much damage a 12.5 gigaton would do to a starfleet shield? (How many gigawatts does a starfleet shield run on?)
     
  19. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Okay lets look at it objectively. We know from The Survivors(TNG) that a 400 gigawatt blast complete decimated the shields of a Galaxy class Starship. To be generous we will give them a 500% increase in ability.

    Now, for simplicity sake we will just say that it takes a blast on 2,000 gigawatt seconds to produce a similar scrambling of the shields on a GCS and Defiant. Smaller vessels are 1,200 to 1,600 and Sovereign is 4,000. Now this is very generous as it is five times the canon ST amount.

    We will call this the Single Beam Break Point or (SBBP). The amount of energy need supplied to 100 square centimeters to smash through the shields. Other hits of lesser variety can weaken the shields and even more powerful hits that is spread over a much larger area and still be fine.

    This follows what we know of ST shields, they can take a pounding that is spread over and area of shields. They can take impacts, pr0vided it strikes a large area of shield, however a concentrated high energy assault completely blows them off line.

    Okay, is everybody with me so far?

    Sovereign, Prometheus, special concept ships 4,000,000,000,000 watt second SBBP
    Galaxy, Amabassador, Defiant 2,000,000,000,000 watt second SBBP
    Smaller Ships 1,600,000,000,000 watt second SBBP

    This is the number of Watts it would take per 100cm^2 to fully blow the shields offline.


    Okay in ESB an ISD was using Weapons to clean out an asteroid field. Now if we only go by movie, appearance and what we know of asteroids, these were mostly Nickel Iron granite asteroids. We do know they had to be destroying 100+ meter radius rocks. But for arguments sake we will limit it to 4 times the length of the Falcon or a total of a 100 meter diameter or 50 meter radius

    50^3*4/3*pi = 523,598.77 cubic meters

    Density of iron is 7,874kg per cubic meter
    Density of Nickel is 8,908 kg per cubic meter
    Density of granit is 2,750 kg per cubic meter

    Assuming a composition of 60% granite, 20% Iron, 20% nickel we would have

    863,937,979.74 kg of granite
    824,563,351.81 kg of iron
    932,843,578.61 kg of nickel

    2,621,344,910.16 kilograms total

    Granite has a specific heat of 294 joules per kilo and 0 pressure vaporization temp of 1,215 Celsius
    Iron has a specific heat of 444 joules per kilo and 0 pressure vaporization temp of 1,811 Celsius
    Nickel has a specific heat of 420 joules per kilo and 0 pressure vaporization temp of 1,728 Celsius

    From a starting tem of -200 Celsius we get the following joule requirements to heat to vapor.
    359,406,838,950,470.00 for granite
    736,239,423,819,485.00 for iron
    755,379,416,211,937.00 for nickel
    1,851,025,678,981,890.00 joules total

    Now this puts a 1/15th second blast of the turbnolaser seen in ESB at a minimum of 1,851,025,678,981,890.00 watt seconds

    Do we see the disparity yet?
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2007
  20. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    13,938
    Scott, are you foolish? Green-wave lasers are visible in present day... idiot.

    And it'd be VERY boring on BOTH SIDES to have weapons move the speed of light- you'd NEVER see them being fired and thus the battles would be... well... stupid.
     
  21. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    13,938
    Yet the mightiest battleship of WW2 from the Germans was brought down by...

    A BRITISH CRUISER!

    Yeah, size isn't everything.
     
  22. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    13,938
    Prove that they use Neutronium
     
  23. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    13,938
    Star Trek script writers (TOS at least) did a LOT of research for their scenes and tried to make them as "possible" as they could while maintaining the scifi aspect.
     
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