Man Beheads Wife in 'Honor' Killing

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by jessiej920, Feb 19, 2009.

  1. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I think the notion of justice is very relative. More crimes are conducted by democracies in the name of justice today than are ever condoned by the forgiveness of some criminals by those most affected by their crimes.

    If a society believes that a justice system works for them, perhaps interference is not helpful. I'm not from a punishment/closure oriented culture, so the notion of must be punished is an alien one to me.
     
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  3. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    is that why you live in a western society, so you can exercise your sexual freedom without having to worry if your head will still be attached tomorrow?
     
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  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I can do that in India too, but don't worry, I'm nice. I don't kill people even if I think they could use some improvements in their moral and social structure.

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    I just nag the crap out of them.

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  7. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    So if my society decides that murdering you is just, you'd accept that, in order to avoid interfering with my society? Are there no bounds on the freedom of societies to define justice? And, if not, what basis is there for any of your criticisms of American/Western/whatever ideas about justice?

    Those most affected by said crimes are dead. They cannot forgive anyone, and presumably would not wish to if they could.

    Allowing the perpetrators to speak for the victims is possibly the most blatant perversion of justice I can imagine.

    I have yet to hear any affirmation from the societies in question that they are satisfied with said practices or how they are handled by their respective justice systems. On the contrary, I get the distinct impression that they are highly dissatisfied with them. You don't speak for them, so your unsupported assertions have no weight.

    Not that it would matter: since the murdered girls and women (and the millions of others that are intimidated into silence by the acceptance of the practice) have no voice in the society when it comes to these matters, it follows that any societal affirmation of the justice system would be invalid in the first place.

    Not that any of this is relevant to someone coming to the United States and beheading his wife in the name of honor. Nobody is suggesting overthrowing Pakistan and changing their criminal code. We're talking about someone who came to the US from another society, presenting himself and his company as the face of American Muslims, and who went on to (publicly, brazenly) violate one of the most fundamental moral precepts of our society (and essentially every other society as well).

    The Islamic Society of North America has the decency and backbone to stand up against this murder, abuse and sexism. So it seems to me that all of the societies in question here are in agreement in condemning the crime and wanting to see the perpetrator tried in the existing American justice system. This is not an instance of the West imposing its own social norms on some foreign culture, but rather refusing to accept the importation of certain barbaric practices from foreign cultures.

    Your post-colonialist rhetoric is highly misplaced here, not least because it has you arguing that brutal oppression of women is indeed an acceptable, legitimate part of certain Muslim societies, and that this is not to be criticized. This not only reinforces perceptions of said societies as backwards and barbaric, but undermines your moral authority by showing you as an apologist for oppression. I thought you always support the underdog? Are women that can be publicly, brutally murdered, without any consequences, somehow not sufficiently marginalized and oppressed for you?
     
  8. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I think you need to brush up on your reading comprehesion skills. Unless you're insisting that Americans who kill around the world should be subject to the ICC. Well, according to Americans, thats only possible if they sign up for it, which is why they don't.

    I'm only reiterating the American notion of what constitutes justice. Are you saying Americans who do not want to be subject to universal justice, lack a backbone?

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  9. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    This guy wouldn't be the first one to get mad about a divorce.
     
  10. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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  11. PieAreSquared Woo is resistant to reason Registered Senior Member

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    Again, it's real simple. He knew she would get laid before he did... unless of course he went to a pro
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    After so many years, sex is the least of teh issues.

    He was probably a wife beater, so many of these self righteous prigs are crooked.
     
  13. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    No, you need to brush up on your reasoning and arguing skills.

    Nothing I've said has any bearing on the ICC, or American participation in it. I have not insisted that Pakistanis who kill around the world should be subject to the ICC either, or any other court system besides the one that governs the territory where the killing took place.

    I have suggested that there are serious flaws in the justice systems of societies that permit honor killings. I have not suggested any course of action for rectifying that.

    The idea that there are certain universally unacceptable crimes, which no society has the authority to allow, does not imply that a single world court system needs to be (or should be) employed, much less that any particular international court system is a good idea. After all, essentially every national justice system in the world already disallows honor killing. I just want the hold-outs to come out of the Dark Ages and fix their justice systems so they are no longer sick jokes.

    You clearly have no idea what the American notion of justice is, and even if you did, you have no standing to speak for American society in the first place.
     
  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Ok, do you believe there should be a universal code of justice? Vote here

    http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=90817
     
  15. PieAreSquared Woo is resistant to reason Registered Senior Member

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    naw... he just didn't want to she her with that fresh laid look on her face.

    She was 37 .. her motor was still running... and quite cute

    while he looks like a tub of lard
     
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    You have a cultural bias. By Pakistani terms he's a changa sona.

    Metrosexuals don't get much mileage in them thar mountains.
     
  17. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Define "Universal Code of Justice."

    There has been a Universal Declaration of Human Rights for over 60 years, accepted by essentially every country in the world. Including many of the honor-killing states.

    It's not clear to me that it's possible to have a Universal Code of Justice that is enforced upon all states, without first having a unified world government.
     
  18. PieAreSquared Woo is resistant to reason Registered Senior Member

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    In the US .... she would be sexed before him... end of story
     
  19. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    She was Pakistani too.
     
  20. PieAreSquared Woo is resistant to reason Registered Senior Member

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    and where were the two of them?
     
  21. synthesizer-patel Sweep the leg Johnny! Valued Senior Member

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    So are honour killings permissable under Pakistani law?
     
  22. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    No, but Zia-ul-Haq instituted Hudud laws in the seventies, where he included the pardon/compensation/punishment clauses.

    But I am not aware of current legal statutes.

    Hmm, apparently, he also decided what the hudud laws were, so I have no idea what the statutes were at all

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zia-ul-Haq's_Islamization
     
  23. PieAreSquared Woo is resistant to reason Registered Senior Member

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    I mean talk about your total dumb fuck. Besides murdering his wife, and getting to look forward to bubba in prison .

    He has set back Muslim relations in the US back big time.

    No doubt he had a fat wallet and could of enjoyed himself big time

    Fucking religious idiot :crazy:
     

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