Man Beheads Wife in 'Honor' Killing

???? You have torture prisons, you kill more people than probably any other country [and thats before we even count the murders by invasion] You sell 50% of all arms in the world, support dictators and consider the "price is right" if 500,000 children die of starvation from actions taken by you.

The veneer of civility is thin in all societies. Its why there is so much noise over one beheading where the man confessed and is charged, but when 500,000 children are killed from preventable causes, no one even musters up an opinion.

What was the sentence given?

You think everyone should be under one legal system? Sign up for the ICC.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

I'm also wondering how any human being can not only fail to feel sickened by this cruelty, but have the sheer audacity to broadcast their indifference on an internet forum.

And if, as you seem to be suggesting, this is some kind of condonable 'human instinct', why don't we just lift all domestic violence laws? Discrimination against women? The murder charge itself? Hell, why judge our 'primate' urges?

What are you talking about? The jury doesn't decide the sentence. They only decide whether or not the defendant is guilty of the charges laid against them. The judge will then decide an appropriate sentence based on the law that already exists. Look, S.A.M., don't feel that your religion/culture is being attacked here. It is only the crimes of this handful of people that we find abhorrent. Try and keep to a logical, reasoned argument.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

How is it a basic primal instinct by males when whole families are involved? Some of these things are planned like having a picnic.

Mama says to papa, 'I'll lure her in here, you and the boys take care of business"
Meanwhile, another family is planning mama's daughter's demise. Everyone involved, two families, no one guilty of murder because they were merely upholding honor. The statistics are skewed.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

It's more than that- they also have separate categories of crime for motives of "honor", with much lighter penalties or none at all.

Usually, in the famous cases, the perps. A little investigation brings up a fair number of cases in which "honor" was used to cover things like acquisition of valuable land from the people killed.

But the existence of the custom makes that possible. And the possibility of being able to count on forgiveness - coerced or complicit is as good as genuine - opens up yet more schemes.

That comparison would not tell you much. Murders of black people were less common in areas of the US where lynching was a custom, for example. Recorded rapes and other abuses of black women were lower in number. And occasional lynching of black people was part of a viable Jim Crow culture, apparently - at any rate, it lasted for generations and was only broken up by force.

 

It is illegal, and punishable by death. If the government doesn't take action, usually wife's family will or provincial courts will. Pakistani moral laws are very strict in this regard.

Don't listen to iceaura, she is racist against Pakistanis, and hates Muslims. It's common for her to say these ridiculous things.

If I was to use the same analogy to America, I could make it seem like all parents in US drown their children.

It's the imperialistic and white supremacist attitude which makes people think others need to be civilized. Some people just need an excuse to vent their racial animosities.

Important thing to realize that such a practice is not condoned by any society, Western, Muslim, or whatever. Only uneducated bigots try to make it seem that way.

 

I quoted a source, and could have quoted dozens of others*. Was the source also racist against Pakistanis, and full of hatred against Muslims?

Your claim of one honor killing per year in Pakistan is nonsense.

Pakistan does not enforce these laws rigorously in all areas.

In the US we are familiar with such situations - the laws against polygamy have not been rigorously enforced in some areas, many laws forbidding violence against persons were not rigorously enforced in cases of white violence against black people in some areas.

*Here's another: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing

Apparently there are a fair number of these cases - so that we have special categories of law for the "extreme" ones.

Furthermore:

which shows one reason why allowing the victim's relatives to legally forgive a murderer is not necessarily a good idea.

 

I'm only pointing out that they have a different legal system, one that includes the possibility of forgiveness. Meanwhile in India, we abolished the jury system, because we considered it to be a tainted procedure for justice. So its all up to the judges. Thats another kind of system.

Which one works? How do you decide? Is law a system of revenge, justice or social control? Is it a system that the people should be permitted to choose for themselves?

Most people in Pakistan, NWFP etc prefer the jirga system, because they believe that it has worked for them better than all others. Are they allowed to make such decisions on behalf of their own society? Should other societies decide what is right for them?

Now they may have different values and an ideology that is alien to the western world. Does this mean that they should be forced to embrace a system that they do not want?

I do not agree with American policies. Should Americans be forced to embrace mine?

 

Sorry O, honor killings are deeply rooted in Islamic culture. The patriarchal concept of ownership of women is codified in Islam.

 

Here you go, pal, better have a read before mouthing off.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/6407774/Pakistan-Penal-Code-PPC

 

Agreed.
When do you think that quit being how it was in the US? I remember watching an episode of Barney Miller in the late 70s where a woman came in to report a rape. They were very sympatheitc and helpful until they found out the rapist was her husband.

 

oh..okay then put his religious leaders in prison with him since they are accessories to the crime and they can all do 15 years

 

Catholicism is also patriarchal, the US Christian masses treat their women very much the same way. I've spoken with born again Christians who would never consider their own wives and daughters as righteous to their god as they are as men.

 

Oh, continue your unending (and quite unedifying) diatriabe against religion in general and Islam in particular. It doesn't alter the fact that the behaviour (and for that matter the religion) are artifacts of human instinctual presdispositions, not the other way round. However, I have come to accept that you often have things the wrong way round - which is probably why you usually talk shit.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

How does the domestic violence in the US compare to other countries?

 

I don't know. I do know some states will prosecute even if the victim begs them not to. I don't know how many other countries have protection orders as well.

 

we generally use handguns.. not too many beheading or throwing acid in someones face

But now that we have all those good examples of "Honor" maybe we will get it right... and follow God's methods .. I mean this whole honor thing has something to do with the muslim twisted view of how god wants us to do things right??

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

I think its about Maslow's hierarchy. I recall a study that indicated societies which made more than $6000 a year were more likely to be both politcally and socially progressive. Its called the power of the middle class.

 

By 'You', I assume you are referring to us godless Americans

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

This has nothing to do with torture prisons or arms distribution. The OP states a simple question:

Why should this man think he can break the law of the country he resides in and get away with it by claiming it was a religious 'honor' killing?

I think that's a very wide generalization. The American Media makes noise over anything that sells papers and ratings, even if it means implicating those that run the American government. This is the THIRD beheading in the US that has taken place over this last year. I found this headline interesting because of the defense the accused chose to use.

He has not been sentenced yet. This just happened so he is still waiting to stand trial.

No S.A.M. I don't think everyone should be under the same legal system, but I do think that you should be subject to the laws and the consequences of breaking them of the country you are a resident of.

 

Forgiveness from society or forgiveness from the victim's family? If you are referring to the latter, then you're placing yourself in a minefield.
How can allowing relatives to have influence over the punishment of the killer ever be part of a fair and consistent justice system? After all, aren't the perpetrators of so-called 'Honour Killings' almost always family members? If not, is someone less worthy of punishment because they picked on the girl with the extremist family? Or more so because the victim was dearly loved? It's a logical fallacy.
Whether they are granted forgiveness by relatives or not, this should not affect the legal consequences of their actions.

In most cultures, the law contains elements of all three - the emphasis on either one differing from country to country.

Despite the fact there are sometimes slight differences between the moral codes of different cultures, there are some acts that are universally thought of as wrong. Throwing acid in a young girl's face or chopping a woman's head off for something as trivial as refusing to wear a veil or perhaps marrying someone disproved of is, pretty much worldwide, regarded as sick and cruel. It's hardly Western oppression if someone argues that the person responsible for such vile acts is brought to justice. Do you feel that these crimes should not be punished?

 

No society is entitled to decide to murder or mutilate anyone. The individual rights of the victims outweigh the society's claim to autonomy.

And, yes, a justice system that allows "forgiveness" by the victim's family members, in the context of widespread murders and mutiliations committed by one family member against another, constitutes exactly such a collective decision by the society in question.

Incidentally, there are avenues for legal forgiveness by the victims in the American justice system. It is routine for charges not to be pressed for certain offenses when the victim (or their relatives) do not wish to pursue them. However, the victims and their immediately families are not the only parties with an interest in justice. There is a larger social interest in protecting the rights of citizens, and maintaining the integrity of the justice system, and so the state itself also has standing to pursue justice independent of the wishes of the aggrieved.