Star Wars vs Star Trek

I appologize - most of what I have read has been around the DAW Soulstorm era 0o'

And a black hole in a marine chest WILL kill them, simply because it'll rip, if NOTHING else, every bit of organic material out of the inside of the armor

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I don't know, I really doubt WH40K would beat the Feds... but I have to read up some more.

 

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Anyway, I have good news / bad news -

Good news - my union is going to represent me in this to try to reinstate my position

Bad news - If the appeal doesn't go thru, looks like I'm stuck working two full time jobs

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Space Marines vs Federation, it isn;t even a contest.

Phasers vs Power Armor: Even Scout armor is made from adamantium, a superdense, super hard, energy resistant compound. Phasers seem to have problems with denser materials, especially anything denser than aluminum. The power level drops of significantly the denser the material. So hand phasers would be largely useless against even Space marine Scout armor and probably even the improvised armor of orks.

Bolter vs Shields. Bolters fire a rocket propelled projectile that at point of impact seems to accelerate as the deuterium explodes propelling adamntine penetrator further through the target. This would have a particularly devastaing effect on shields as it would literally have to stop the round twice effectively.

The Warp: The Imperium of man is spread through out the galaxy, yet ships take at most two or three years to reach the furthest corners of the Empire.

 

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The warp is actually some kind of subspace area where all evil and chaos lives, kind of like a living manifistation of hell, and every several years a wormhole opens up allowing all the monsters and bad things to come out and kill everything they can. The grey knights space marines fight them and are even better than their normal space marines.

ie, they carry a small force halberd in their left hand, and a storm bolter strapped to their right arm, or a psycannon.

 

Yes, but remeber with the Emperor's Light it is possible for Imperial ships to travel in the Warp rather safely compared to anyone else.

 

I have to admit, after playing WH:40k Dawn of War 2...

While the power armor is impressive... I dunno. If shockwaves from things such as heavy objects impacting the ground, organic spines, and a sword swung with the strength of a mortal (even enhanced via cybernetics) are considered high-intensity damage and can penetrate Space Marine (or even Force Commander) armor... I don't see why phasers or other high-output energy weapons couldn't do so as well.

While things like the Dreadnaught and Devastator Squads are impressive... I didn't see anything that would contest Federation air superiority (but then, it is just one game)

What is the cannon staple for WH40K? I'm assumings books/games are equal, or books would be slightly higher (as I believe they came first)

 

The cannon staple is actually the playable board game.

It began like 20 ish years ago and is on it's 5th edition.

Also, people have been asking the questions about swords and just blunt force killing high health units.

So Games workshop explained it as the power fists, thunder hammers, swords, etc, use a surrounding energy field that basically cuts through pretty much anything, so it is not the actual metal of the sword doing the slicing and dicing, but the energy field.

Same with lightning claws and power fists.

Also, Dawn of War II leaves some things out i wish they had.

Including the vindicator, basically a rhino chasis, with a supermassive hull mounted cannon in the front.

And the three varients of the landraider, one with two twin lascannons and heavy bolter, one with twin hurricane bolters (three twin linked bolters strapped together to make a single hurrican bolter) and assault cannon, and one with two of the most powerful flamethrowers in the game (can easily melt through power armor) and assault cannon.

 

From What i've played of Dawn of War the tech is very terristrial. If it weren't then they wouldn't be using ground troops in the first place. Any organization that considers or uses his ground forces more than the space fleet is admiting to an lacking weapon and fleet ability.

 

What did you think of DaW: Soulstorm - the BaneBlade is just... an awesome, incredible platform. But I still say - one starship photon torpedo and *pop*

 

No, it just means that the space fleets have relatively equivalent combat abilities.

 

which is what leads to Saq's conclusion i belive. if such levels of destruction are viable/desireble ground combat becomes apsolite.

 

Maybe because, at the end of the day a space fleet if it wins just cant go around blasting every planet it finds because it wants the empire to expand.

The mentality of the races in warhammer 40,000 isnt that of constant war, it's the need for expansion (except for orks and any chaos races those are all for destruction

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) I think that this means that obliterating a world from space is only a final alternative if a land invasion is impossible.

Because of that mentality it means that the factions need to make some good dedicated ground combat units in order to take these planets by force.

 

...but... none of this is real

 

True but for the sake of the convo we are suspending our disbelief.

 

Anyways, its a lot of fun, i mean when else can we debate things with handheld lasers and battle stations the size of planets?

 

I've only played the original and the winter version.

At the end of the Day, a space fleet would prevent ground forces from making planet fall in the first place and would certainly prevent the ground forces encounters by eliminating before reaching your installations. A space fleet is the ultimate tactical tool. With space based lasers and energy weapon you can even afford to be discriminate.

Ground Forces should mostly become obsolete like in Star Trek.
Star Fleet doesn't have marines in spades. Shield technology protects ground installations. Orbital weapons protect planets from ground troops land fall. Very Very simple.

Ground Forces are only necessary in recovery.

 

Okay, maybe because it would be a boring ass game if you were right.

And you do realize that the mariens could make landfall during a space fight.

And they fight in swamps, deserts, plains, mountains, valleys, you cant just blast every enemy from space because u must locate them first. And even then it is dificult.

 

Yes Marines could make planetfall during an engagement.
However that isn't the premise that most games like DUNE, Star Craft and Dawn of War establish. Even still wouldn't a Space Craft make provision to eliminate the threat to the ground forces before leaving the planet?

Orbital Detection today can see license plates and coins on the ground and even infared signatures. The future or more advanced technology should be able to do even better visually and radiometricly. There are countermeasure to somethings but not full instalations on the ground. (cloak excepted)

Whenever a genre uses fighters or amass ground troops to epic proportions like in Clone Wars it's conceeding that it's Space Base platforms have weaknesses or deficiences that can be exploited the same is true of Trek.

 

Ummmm sure, im no expert on the orbital cpabilities of warhammer 40,000 because that is actually a whole nother board game called battlefelet gothic, all i know is vague refereances in the codex.

 

Actually no such thing is being conceded.

In W40K ground forces are used becuase they are surgical in nature. The US has nuclear weapons, but we still send in the Marines and Rangers first. Why? Becuase we like to minimize damage.

In SW Ground forces and Fighters are again used in situation where you want to achieve a goal an minimize damage,

Why these aren't needed in ST is becuase ST ship weaponry is much less powerful than the previous two examples. And this observation is based of series and movies. And always based on what we have seen weapns do, not on what a character states.