Star Wars vs Star Trek

What calculations?

And the Trek Manual is terrible, don't even bother with it - it states things that are verging on the physically impossible (including the locations of some phaser arrays)

I highly, HIGHLY advise you to stick to what we see in the actual shows, as they easily contradict what the TM says, namely Treks ability to simply swat large astral bodies with a single photon torpedo at mid-level yield.

 

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Uh, no... most of the disruptors hit the bridge area... and it doesn't matter if they hit "the general area" as those hits would destablize the bridge anyway...

A Disruptor works by expanding and compressing the molecules of the target a thousand times a second... considering the entire ship (when hit unshielded) didn't simply fall apart, that shows some damn good materials. Considering the bridge being blown asunder didn't render the ship useless like it does an ISD... yeah.

 

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If the Executor is impervious to fighters, than ISD's should be able to reasonably defend themselves against them... and the DS 1 and 2 should have LAUGHED at them

 

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Too bad your own side says the same thing about you...

 

Scott, you forget the Temporal Prime Directive... what Janeway did is ILLEGAL and subjects you to PERMANENT IMPRISONMENT in all but EXTREME circumstances!

 

Oh, big deal. They assembled a fleet around THEIR HOME BASE in a few minutes... you really think there weren't a dozen or so ships just randomly around Earth? Considering, you know, most of the people on those ships probably have family there?

Use your damn brain man... for once?

 

Cody, this is what I'm getting at:

In Star Trek, we have instances where we can get a VERY good bead on their overall firepower... we have good camera angles providing us with useful shots against known targets. The best of which is a Photon Torpedo blowing away an asteroid the size and exact composition of which we know.

In Star Wars, we have, at best, circumstantial evidence. We know the DS can blow up a planet... woo... we don't know how they do it. Do they destabilize then detonate the core? Do they simply inundate it with energy to cause total molecular destabilization? Do quadrillians of van neuman devices devour it, then spontaniously explode? We really do not know. Likewise, most of the asteroid scenes we are given little, if any, sensor readout on what they are.

Trek has instances where "exotic" things interfere with the ship. No, really? Trek is also a LOT longer running than Wars is as far as number of episodes and movies. If we include the Trek book line and the Wars book lines, and video games, and other EU for both worlds, we have a VERY long list of information, most of which clashes with the basic movies and episodes. Thus, I generally try to stick to what is in the on screen material, as that is highest canon anyway.

Now, we can agree that a single Star Trek ship can slag a planet (Defiant/Sovereign/Nova/etc) and that a single ship can produce a torpedo that, while not standard ordinance, can OBLITERATE an entire solar system and everything within 5... AU or LY, I forget which.

We know that Star Wars can build giant battlestations able to blow a planet to asteroids. We know that fighters can take out these said battlestations. We also know Fighters have very limited shielding depending on the type of fighter. We ALSO know Wars has the Force, and an array of other exotic things almost NOTHING is really known about, including HYPERSPACE, which is, apparently, a folding of time, not space.

So, tell me - which is easier to analyze? Star Trek really does a lot of the work for us... so it comes down to sifting thru the contradictions to find a basic average.

The averages, in my honest opinion, point to Star Trek ultimately winning the fight. The "super materials" in Trek are far superior to the "super materials" found in Star Wars - Neutronium / Duranium / Ablative Armor / MetaPhasic Shields / Temporal Incursions compared to Corsca Gems / Durasteel / Planet-based Shields / Force

Then there's the basic ships - the basic "fight" vehicle in Star Wars is the Starfighter... small, nimble, and easy enough to kill. The basic "fight" vehicle in Star Trek is the Starship... larger, fast as hell at tactical speeds, self sufficient, and generally hard to take out.

The capital ships in Star Wars are MASSIVE flying ships that measure in the Kilometers! They are terribly slow moving, generally as agile as a one legged cat, and have shielding able to withstand other large ships impacting them yet, strangely, unable to withstand the impact of multiple asteroids. They are large, heavy, damage soaking monsters. On the Trek side we have larger starships and, to a point, smaller starships geared more towards battle. They are, again, fast, nimble, and will avoid most damage instead of just soaking it up.They unleash a hail of firepower from a mobile platform that, while nowhere near as durable, is able to avoid a lot. They are also MUCH more agile and, instead of attempting to swat an asteroid with their face, will simply go around them.

You see what I'm getting at...? Trek has the advantage where it counts - practicality. A small, quick Defiant class ship going up against, say, a Mon Calamari cruiser would be an impressive fight. The Defiant dodging in and out of heavy weapons fire, peppering the larger ship with torpedoes and pulse phaser fire surrounded by a hail of laser fire. You saw how that thing moved in the Dominion Wars - it was like a bloody falcon! Dip, swerve, dodge, lift, jink left, break right... all at greater than half the speed of light! Tell me - do you honestly think that a HTL battery has any chance of tracking something moving like that when they can't hit admittedly smaller starfighters going much, much slower?

 

well if we're including the animated star wars series: windu and grievous kill everyone.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it isn't.

But even if we take Saq's movie/eu contradiction idea into affect.

EU fills in everything that the films fail to explain, but if it contradicts the film timeline, it is left out. However, since lucas said that it is "all over" after Ep. VI (film canon), EU can't fill that in because nothing happens after Ep. VI.

 

Actually in the context he was speaking of he was referring to the story he was destined to tell. Any idiot with a rudimentary grasp of the english language understood that. Which is why I know you knew this, but of course admitting that would be contrary to your argument, so you hide behind distortions and obsfucation.

 

Yes, he could tell his immediate surrounding when blind, however that would be very limited use aiming at a vessel he would be trying to follow with naked eye. Can you see a bullet moving at 2000fps? Why would you be able to see a starship moving many times as fast?

 

Actually Memory Alpha is nothing more than Wiki for Star Trek and is not relaible unless back up by in show information. As the Borg originally took many months to reach Earth the first time obviously the Transwarp conduits must be constructed. The second Earth had several HOURS to prepare a defense. In "Endgame" Starfleet had a fleet of ships ready to face the possible borg threat travelling in the Transwarp conduit. Which means there must have been several hours at least to gather the ships and send them there.So obviously minutes is a VAST exaggeration.

 

Actually, Lucas DID say quite plainly the story ended with him... so... yeah.

 

Yes, multiple ships gathered in front of their home planet... ships that LIKELY were there already!

Don't play dumb... oh wait, you aren't playing, I'm sorry. Don't be so stupid as to assume they were not already in system...

 

Again, you are making an intentional gross misstatement based on over-simplifying. Lucas said his part of the Star Wars story was telling Anakin's story. As Anakin's story ends with Episode 6 his major involvement is ended, for now. Remember he is not dead he could change his mind and make more movies. So the EU past Episode 6 does not have to worry about if it contradicts any movies in the same timeframe, for now.

So in effect you are trying to play the creator card. In which case we can too. You can't have it going both ways, Kittamaru.

 

Actually I am not playing dumb. Everytime something has come to Earth, save the Borg Cube in First Contact. There has been NOTHING in system. During Ds9 and the attempted coup the Lakota was the ONLY vessell in orbit untill Defiant arrived.

You, however, are being intentionally ignorant. Every turn you go completely against Star Trek Canon. I bet you would argue with Gene Roddenberry himself.

 

Oh yes, the fact that there aren't vessels randomly meandering about means they aren't there.

Uh, HELLO, we see a VERY limited slice of space when we do see earth- there are numerous spacedocks, stardocks, trading hubs, spaceports, and the multitude of colonized planets and moons! You really think everyone just beams down to the surface and leaves the ship "floating" randomly in space? I don't THINK so... they dock the damn thing at starport for repairs, refuling, rearming, and what have you.

Just because I stand on the shore of Hawaii and look out of port from Pearl Harbor doesn't mean there are no ships stationed there... they're just IN PORT not outside the port floating around like idiots...

 

Except for one small, insurmountable problem - Lucas said HIS STORY (HIS referring to Star Wars) ended... Roddenbury, however, never made such a statement, and even SAID he hoped HIS STORY would continue on long after he was gone.

Thus, I can have it both ways, as there is only one way - the way the two said it.

 

A frieghter is far from Star Fleet vessel. Or do you thingk every vessel inside the Federation space is in Star Fleet. And honestly in FIrst Contact they specifically mentioned they were assembling a defense force. If they were just already there, why would they need to be recalled and assembled. Why would the Defiant have been called to the battle when it is MANY hours from Earth. Was it conviently at Earth for some other reason? Having Worf at the command, i don;t think so.

Excuse me, but comparing Star Trek tot he US Navy is not going to win you this argument. Especially when Starfleet does not seem to operate anything like the modern navy 99.99999% of the time.

Besides if the ships were there, during the Coup either the Lakota would have had allies or the Defiant would have. Sorryu, but canon shows that it was just a dogfight between Old and New.

 

And you have proven that your reading comprehension is absolutely noexistant.

Lucas said that early on he realized that his story was one of many stories that would be told in the Star Wars universe. That thought alone disqualifies your entire argument.