Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

?

Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    I think youve got soemthing seriously wrong here. If all trek ships could micro-warp, than why dont they, when the borg were obliterating 40 ships over wolf something or other, why didnt they just micro warp away? Or when the scimitar was shipping their asses, why didnt they micro warp away?
    Something's wrong with the whole microwarp story because if they could they would, but they cant and so they hardly ever will
     
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  3. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    The problem is, micro-warps don't generally work against weapons moving at high-relativistic speeds... like phasers and/or borg cutting beams or tractor beams. The reason for that is there just isn't any time to react.

    In TNG we see Riker and Picard doing a wargame... and they were interrupted by the Ferengi... they were able to co-ordinate a micro-warp jump to make it seem like Picard destroyed Riker's ship... when in reality it simply warped out. It required pretty intense timing though... to try to do it with ENEMY photon torpedoes coming at you would be near impossible.
     
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  5. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    ...
     
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  7. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Actually, once you hit a liquid or a porous material, it' be HARDER to drill thru it via directed energy because A) you have gases coming out of the hole B) the material doesn't "absorb" energy as well, making it harder to vaporize C) they weren't going to the magma, just deep underground pockets of I believe methane gas.

    Finally - I doubt your ships are "a few miles" in diameter

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  8. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    Im sorry dude but that was not the funniest joke ive laughed at.
    Almost as funny as this one though, What's the last thing to go through Worf's brain if he had really rammed the borg cube? I say the windshield.

    Back to reality

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    Why dont you say how pathetically weak my weapons are to the thousands of worlds that are covered in soot and ash from my bombardments? Or are those worlds pathetically weak too? You are a sad, sad little man kitt.

    Well here's a little problem, those big bad old planet blowey uppy things you call planet killers, yeah, theres only a handful of ships specialized in planet killing in ST. Every ship in WH40k specializes in planet killing.
    And lets correct something, Voyager BARELY survived 1/8th the power required to destroy a planet. Do you really think voyager or any other ST ship could survive 8 times that from just one of my warships?

    Well duh i am Kitt, my frigates have around that level of firepower, wait till you see my cruisers and battle barges, those are the heavy weight champions of weaponry.

    Oh and you would really know what I am defining as super sonic or hypersonic? Do you really think you know more about my own ships than I do? Or are you just getting desperate?

    Hey, the necrons made a warship a few thousand miles in diameter. I think that would impress the borg.

    Anyways, in the 40k universe, planet killing really is not that dificult, its hardly even a last resort really. I don't even think the feds have the balls to even build one.
     
  9. Lord Vasago bcd Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    827
    i know torps can sustain warp but in a sublight battle i never saw a torp go in warp. hell it always take +1sec to reach the target. If the torps are in warp you wouldn't even see them. Even your transferic torps are slower than my grandma drives.

    i agree with you than if they would run a conparisson scan they would know it wasn't a moon. but han didn't run such a scan simply because he didn't suspect anything would be wrong. as for an SD with lots of people it propably would be doing so all the type. it if where a Calamari Cruiser for instance they probably would have seen that there was something there that wassn't suppose to be there.

    why would your shieldgrid hold back a fighter ?? it didn't hold the unshielded E-e.

    i do agree ith you that officers often screw up. sigh but then again put some rebel on a SD and that solves the problem.


    actualy if it where an other pilot then shinzon they wouldn't stop firing. Picard wouldn't have the time to even tink about a clone of himself. he would be dead allready. they needed picard for his dna.
    btw there we're 3 ships firing before they could even pinpoint the SCimitar.
     
  10. Nasor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,231
    Or perhaps the Millenium Falcon was a broken-down ship owned by a poor lowlife that was hardly able to fly most of the time, and so had crappy sensors. I mean, you have to bang the control panel with your fist in the "sweet spot" to get the power to come on sometimes. How good do you really expect the sensors to be?
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2009
  11. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    6,231
    A turn is the time it takes a space marine to fire a weapon twice. 8 seconds seems a bit long, but I guess it's somewhat plausible if he's being really really careful to aim his shots. 4 seconds sounds a lot more reasonable, although it's still arguably on the slow side. If a normal human in battle kit can run 8 inches in one turn and a turn is 4 seconds, that would probably be around 30-40 meters, which would indicate that a bolter or lasgun's extreme range is in the neighborhood of 100 meters. That's not very good compared to modern guns, but since the vast majority of gun fights take place within 100 meters, you could argue that maybe they designed the weapons to pack as much punch as possible within that distance.

    It's tempting to say that a marine should be able to fire faster than 1 shot every 2 seconds, but then you run into the problem of most weapons only having stupidly short ranges.
     
  12. Nasor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,231
    Plus the fact that the Imperial Navy is stated to be vastly stronger than the combined strength of the space marine chapters' various ships, in order to help make sure the marines can't do too much damage is they go rogue again.

    Anyway, it's kind of unfair since pretty much the entire 40k galaxy is populated and unified, and we're putting it up against the ST federation that seems to only have a few dozen major planets. A more interesting fight would be something like the federation vs. a handful of relatively developed imperium worlds.
     
  13. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    Nasor, according to Kitt it is totally fair because of his below points (not direct quotes but paraphrasing)

    1.) SM vessels are snail slow
    2.) They are as innacurate as SW vessels, even more so, "95% accuracy" even though a planetary bombardment from kilometers away lands within a a few meters of the target.
    3.) SM weapons are shit, even though they vaporize worlds
    4.) WH40k shields are shit, even though they can ram through shields meant to protect entire fucking planet sized space ships
    5.) SM armor is shit, even though they can last in vacums, magma, space, laser fire, and inside the reactor of a plasma core reactor.
    6.) Bolters are shit, even though they are missiles that detonate on target spewing guts everywhere.

    7.) ST weapons can destroy entire planets in a few seconds. But 40 of them cannot destroy a cube 1 kilometer by 1 kilometer by 1 kilometer.
    8.) ST ships travel at 9/10 the speed of light standard. Even though most of their impulse drives cant even come close to that.
    9.) They carry planet destroyer weapons standard. and to disprove this referance number 7.
    10.) ST infantry weapons can pierce shields, adamentium armor, but cannot fire through a brick wall.
    11.) ST infantryman have shields that are infinitely powerful, reliable, and never run out of energy, even though they never bother to use them.
    12.) That infantry shields even EXIST even though they were cited what, three times? And not even seen ONCE.
    13.) That ST ships can go in and out of warp so fast that for some reason WH ships cant hit them, but they can hit us with 100% accuracy.

    14.) that all of the above is true, Which is incredible bullshit.

    That is why i feel that all of WH40k should fight the feds, just to show kittamaru how much bullshit he is spouting.
     
  14. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    Im specialized with space marines, all i know about other races are general things everyone knows or things in my codex like the world engine. I dont know enough about the imperial guard or any other race to give exact numbers, but yah your right, i would expect the imperial guard to have a few times that number.
     
  15. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    The feds don't NEED to blow up a planet...

    1) As I said, if they need to remove a threat of that level, let a defiant or two turn the planets crust into molten slag in a few minutes time...

    2) If they REALLY need to do something dramatic, force the solar systems star to go super-nova. That'll take care of all the planets in short order.

    3) Finally, if things WERE to go badly... subspace weapons. I doubt your ships would withstand being ripped into different dimensions atom by atom...
     
  16. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Hubris brought Shinzon down

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  17. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    If they can navigate HyperSpace, I'd HOPE good enough to tell the difference between a Station and a Planetoid XD
     
  18. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Actually, the original "turn" was dictated by Gary Gygax for D&D... and so far I haven't seen any game state otherwise. 8 seconds makes sense for the time it takes to make a full-round action. Remember, a turn is MORE than just a single attack... it's a set of actions (move/move/minor, move/minor/attack, minor/minor/attack, etc) so logically it makes sense

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  19. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    *shrugs* You call it what you like... stop reading between the lines and read the actual text, you might learn something

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  20. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    For them being your specialty, you gravely overestimate their abilities...
     
  21. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Finally, Fedr808, I'm getting rather tired of you trying to put words in my mouth... I don't play mind games or anything like that.

    So, stop reading between the lines, stop reading into what I'm saying - cut and paste, WH40K doesn't stand a chance for 2 reasons:

    1) They're too busy fighting themselves...

    2) They have no experience fighting against an enemy like the Federation... where as the Federation has plenty of experience fighting against slower, larger targets.
     
  22. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    11,888
    In general:
    40K has the numbers - huge numbers.
    But their weapons and armour are generally *cough* shit: low ranges, and the rules are constructed such that even the heavy vehicles can be taken out by relatively low-grade weapons.
    The most damning thing of all: nobody in the 40K universe seems to have the faintest idea of strategy or tactics.
    Read the rules, read the background material, read the game write ups.
    It's "See a target: shoot it. Move until we see another and shoot that".
     
  23. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Thank you... I'm glad someone else can see the light.
     
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