Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

?

Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. antaran_1979 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,447
    1+2. this would always be a point of contest, but there are ways to provide inteligence and most civilina data is not classified by Fed standards. so locations of many home worlds would be easy to come by and probe droids would confirm the military presence or lack of it.

    3. as i said, major military instalations are no tlikely to be taken out on a whim, but i would not label them uncrackable, given enough determination even the largest Star Bases (like the 74) could be overwealmed, even when backed up by deffence platforms and ocasional patrol or stationed ships. still, large ammount of ships would be required.
     
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  3. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    I will be honest, the empire is ANYTHING but subtle and stealthy. They are the lumbering giant. And a quick and agile foe can easily cripple them. They do not know the first thing about strategy and tactics just throw everything we have and hope we wont lose.

    thats why I think wh40k would win because the space marines are incredibly effective in surprise attacks, raids, and massive battles. This is what they were engineered to do.
     
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  5. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Heh... I wouldn't exactly call a space marine stealthy... maybe their stealth-suits... but those provide rather... minimal... armor protection.
     
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  7. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    Yah sure the suits arent camoflauged. But they now tactics and strategies and are the masters of both. they know when to hide, and when to strike. Each chapter is only 1000 strong, if you are guarding a few billion people against the worst of all terrors, you have to fight smart and strong. And this is what space marines were engineered to do.
     
  8. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Eh, maybe I'm just weird - I generally have my stealth suits run up and lay a few det-packs, then have the Space Marines raise hell... when the enemy comes over to attack *KA_BOOM*
     
  9. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    Thats what im talking about.

    Though, those detpacks are pretty over powered but oh well.

    That is stealth and subtlety. The opposite would be landing a cruiser and diembarking a hundred space marines.

    I dont mean like running super stealthy assassination missions like ninjas, im talking about surgical strikes and raids.
     
  10. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, but the Marines themselves aren't being stealthy - it's the Stealth Suit guys

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    Though, it'd be funny as all HELL to see a Space Marine creeping up behind someone ... I mean, it's a giant, mechanized suit of armor... the servos themselves should give em away XD
     
  11. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    I dunno, in a massive firefight its typically rather hard to hear the servos.

    The same arguement as the supposed defect of the m1 garand when the mag pops and hits the ground enemies can hear the pinging sound. I find it doubtfull that throughout grenades, artillery, machine gun fire, and bombs and tanks, a German can hear that sound. I find that to be total BS.
     
  12. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    OH trust me... my grandfather has been there, done that - the common thing was to do "lapse" reloads - they hear the ping, come around the corner, and your buddy is ready with his M1 and you with your 1911 Colt .45

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    Consider that often times, especially at night, but generally in any kind of fight situation your senses are INCREDIBLY sharp due to the excess of adrenaline.
     
  13. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    My grandfather also used the m1 garand, good gun.

    Isnt the M14 the same gun except with no wood, and a different mag system?
     
  14. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    The M1 Garand was the springboard for many rifles:

    T20
    Springfield
    T25
    M14


    The M14 was a spectacular failure, as it attempted to replace the M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, M3 Grease Gun, and the M1918 BAR - it failed in all respects, having too much recoil for an assault-rifle and being too light a caliber for a machine gun. It was too unweildy and heavy for a carbine... and was generally inferior to the M1 Garand itself.

    However, the M14 IS still in use today - it has excellent accuracy and good range, making it a shining example of a marksmans rifle, a feature it's used in the NAVY Seals and other branches of the armed forces.

    You can read more about it here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M14_rifle
     
  15. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    So, back to topic.
     
  16. FallenMan Registered Member

    Messages:
    1
    Why SW is likely to kill ST. Soundly.

    I don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet, but SW has access to much more powerful methods of energy creation than antimatter reactions. Everyone knows Alderaan was destroyed by the Death Star, but what most don't seem to notice is that the planet was almost vaporized in a few frames. Someone much more educated than I did the math and found it would take a neutron star made of antimatter and half the diameter of the Death Star to destroy a planet of that size in such a spectacular way. We've seen the inside of a death star and know the generator is much much smaller, so we can tell that SW technology involves energy sources much stronger than M/AM reactions powering their vessels. This implies that phasers, disruptors, and torpedoes will bounce off of SW capital ship shields, while turbolasers will punch right through ST shields, and ion cannons will shut down every system aboard their targets.
     
  17. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    Well for starters most of the empires ships arent the size of planets. Second off, the main reactor doesn't need to have as much power as you say if it worked more like a capacitor, storing up energy over time but the trade off being a lower rate of fire, but you wouldnt need such a demanding energy source.

    If you were right than the DS 2 should have had an excellant rate of fire because of that massive amount of energy output.


    I love the irony of the empire.

    The death star is defeated exploiting a hole 2 meters across leading to the core, and two proton torpedos were fired into it and followed the tunnel. And blew the damn thing up.

    Solution in death star II.

    They made a hole big enough for a fucking ship to fly through. I mean what morons, I could see the whole conversation going on between the engineers.

    "The death star was destroyed by the rebellion off of a lucky shot of two torpedos down a hole two meters wide. So any ideas for improvement?"

    - "how bout we make a hole big enough to fit a ship inside?"

    "Okay lets do it, lets see those rebels fly a ship down this hole."
     
  18. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Lol... that and the DS didn't vaporize the planet as evidenced by the fact that the Falcon flew into the asteroid field left by it a little later in the movie

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  19. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    4,149
    BS, way BS. We know from the e[pisode where the Borg kidnapped Seven of Nine that the Borg do not become immune to weapon attacks but more efficent in shielding. They have superior energy generation and shielding capabilities to even a pair of GCS class vessels. So one on one or even two on one the Borg cube wins. Now In First Contact we see that 2 dozen Federation ships had the Cube all but destroyed. Even without the arraval of the Enterprise E they likely would have won with the loss of one or two more vessels. Hell, the only reason the Cube one Wolf 357 was becuase of the tactical genius of Picard.


    Now, the Imperial Star Detroyer has thousands of times the energy generation and shielding capabilities of a Federation GCS. The Typical Borg cube even with adpation would find itself smashed to smithereens within seconds. Which means even a small fleet of Federation vessels had NO chance against an ISD. How can a vessel to whicha 128 megaton weapon is a serious threat face a vessel to which a 200 gigaton weapon is a standard gun.
     
  20. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Very true, however it did energetically blow up a planet defeat gravitational binding energy to the point where the debris was moving away form the center at significant speeds. Just defeating the gravitational binding energy enough for a slow break up require more power than 7 years of what our Sol can produce.
     
  21. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    13,938
    All but destroyed... are you fucking joking? That fleet of 2 dozen federation ships started as what, 50????? And how many operational ships did we see when Picard co-ordinated the attack? I counted, at most, a dozen...

    I hardly say that was "mostly destroyed"... and your ISD is a POS and you know it. PROVE that 128 megatons is a "serious threat" and PROVE that you can fire 200 gigaton weapons at all...

    Oh, yeah, you CAN'T! Because your full of CRAP
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2009
  22. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    13,938
    Okay, two points here:

    1) For all we know, they simply caused the core to boil away... a very likely proposition given how the planet exploded. It's like popping a kernal of corn - fun to watch, but hardly impressive.

    2) We dont' know that Alderaan didn't form back into a planet... in all honesty, we have no idea what happened a few weeks after it went boom...
     
  23. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Greg Bear's novel, "The Forge Of God", contains an interesting refinement of this technique. Here, the antagonist instead generates antimatter in the form of a "slug" of anti-neutronium - superdense material massing a billion kilograms per cubic centimetre. This is fired into the Earth's core. Neutronium passes through ordinary matter as easily as a ball flies through the air, so the anti-neutronium slug doesn't annihilate immediately; rather, it builds up a protective sheath of plasma around it as it plunges downwards towards the Earth's core. It's then followed up by a slug of regular neutronium, which also falls into the core, at a time calculated to meet the first slug head-on at the exact centre of the Earth, where they annihilate themselves, and soon afterwards, the Earth itself. Highly space-efficient, and with the added bonus of all the energy being released at the Earth's core, where it can do the most damage. In the book, the antagonists simultaneously detonate nuclear warheads in certain oceanic trenches, to weaken the crust and allow the planet to be blown apart more easily.
     
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