Muslim Experience in America

Discussion in 'Politics' started by DiamondHearts, Aug 6, 2008.

  1. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    Well that's were SAM wants it, that way no one examines the doctrine of Islam, but end up argues minutia.

    SAM calls for a trial of the U.S. but just mention holding trial on Islam and that a whole different story.

    Infidels, can't hold Islam to account, or don't you know that.

    India can ensconce the loss of Habeas Corpus in their Constitution to control situations of emergency, of their own population, citizens and SAM is perfectly fine with it.
     
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  3. DiamondHearts Registered Senior Member

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    This thread is hilarious, I'm serious.

    We went from discussing the experiences of Muslims in America (harassment, suspicion, day to day lives, i.e. the topic of this thread), then it was hijacked by Israelis and Republicans and became a thread to show how evil all Muslims are and how they are all a threat to the world, then bashing Pakistan, then bashing India, then posting some analysis of SAM's signature, and now we are talking about how India suspended Habeas Corpus (I assume to silence criticism of the Bush administration's Patriot Act).

    The best part, not a moderator in sight. Only in Sciforums.
     
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  5. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    No just pointing out the hypocrisy of SAM, and Bush hasn't suspended the rule of Habeas Corpus, of Citizens of the U.S. and legal residents.

    Now as for a matter, under the Geneva Convention prove that Illegal Enemy Combatants have a right to Habeas Corpus, or even that a POW has that right.

    G.C. Articles 3-4-5 spell out the rights of those captured or detained on the battle field quite clearly.

    It defines a Legal Combatant clearly, and there by also defines a Illegal Combatant very clearly.

    And when taken in conjunction with the rest of the Convention, does not grant Habeas Corpus to any Legal, Illegal, or other detainee taken on the field of Battle.

    Now as to the Moslem experience in America, if they are citizens, and not committing Treason, or participating in act of terrorist against America, which actually makes them spies, they have all the rights of any other American Citizen, they have lost nothing, there is no mass murder taking place, and I, even living in rural America, were the Rednecks are thick and plentiful, have not seen a act of open aggression committed against any Moslem, that wasn't dealt with to the fullest extent of the Law.

    In fact Moslems in America are far safer in their live's than anywhere else on the Planet.
     
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  7. DiamondHearts Registered Senior Member

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    OK Buffalo, in your estimate are the vast majority of Muslims in the US peaceful and loving people? There are 7 millions of Muslims in America.

    Do you think that a person can wish for the best for America by wanting to withdraw troops occupying Iraq and Afghanistan? If the person opposed to war overseas is Muslims, should his patriotism be questioned?

    Do you believe that it is possible to have a just and lasting peace in the Middle East while the people remain Muslim? If these people choose to live as Muslims, should the US stop them from doing so?

    Do you agree with me that attempting to portray SAM or any other Muslim on this thread as a sympathesizer for terrorists is dishonest, when they have consistently been opposed to the murder of innocent civilians?

    Is it possible that a Muslim can want peace and justice in the world and remain true to his faith (as I believe)?

    Lastly, can an individual be a pious Muslim and be a good individual? This question is very important, please answer.

    I would appreciate if you answer all my questions thoroughly and honestly.
     
  8. John99 Banned Banned

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    First thing DH is to realize that we are all individuals. Where is this blockage?
     
  9. Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

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    Hehe.. Americans point out other peoples hypocrisy. Thats something only Americans would do.
    (that isn't being racist btw, history has proven it true, you only need to look at the NPT, Arming foreign nations, and so on, Oh, did I mention Kyoto ?).
     
  10. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, but all it take is 19 Moslems with evil intentions to kill 2850+ innocent civilians, and there are more than 19 Moslem still in America who are willing to try and carry out such attacks.

    No, not in the Best Interest of America, Iraq or Afghanistan.

    Yes, the enemy over seas is Moslem, the Terrorist that are attacking are Moslems.

    The U.S. has never tried to stop Moslems from Liveing as Moslems, but as to Peace in the Middle East if they live as Moslem, there will never be peace, they cannot even make Peace among themselves, and both sides are living as Moslems.

    No, SAM and any who don't condemn out right the murder of Innocent Men Women and Children, are sympathizer for terrorists.

    When you openly condemn, those who use suicide bombing, and the deliberant targeting of Civilians, especially Moslems at Market, then you are not a sympathizer.

    But when like SAM, you make morally relative argument for those actions, you are nothing but a terrorist.

    As a Matter of Policy the U.S. doesn't target civilians, the systems that we have developed to discreetly target specific target speaks to the fact.

    The Millions of dollars spent to try and make sure our ordinance goes on target speaks to the fact that we don't target civilian.

    No, because to a Moslem the only peace and justice is Islam, and Sharia, and they deny any and all other Faiths and Justice Systems.

    In Islam you are either a Moslem or second class, the only Moslems that I have ever met that didn't have that attitude were Bahi, and Sunii and Shia don't accept them as true believers.

    A good individual? yes.

    Any thing I have ever posted has been Honest, to those who Debate Honestly.

    I have condemned all who break the Laws of Combat, and the Code of Conduct.

    I will not condemn any before Trial by Evidence and Verdict.

    If found guilty, I will condemn any action of the guilty.

    Our Law Provides for the Presumed Innocence until proven Guilty by Fact and Evidence, that is our Law, and it is a good law.
     
  11. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I really have to grow up one of these days. How tiresome.

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  12. DiamondHearts Registered Senior Member

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    That doesn't mean anything. There have been Jewish criminals [Ariel Sharon], Orthodox Christian criminals [Milosovich], and Hindu criminals [Narendra Modi]. Should we view all these religious groups by the criminals who claim to be part of their religion?

    NOTE: There has never been, or are now, any shortage of American murderers and criminals as Abu Ghareeb, Bagram, Guantanamo Base prisoner abuse shows, nor of American murderers who killed innocent civilians in invasions of Falluja, Kandahar, etc.

    Least we forget, there has been only one country in the entire history of mankind to use nuclear weapons on the civilian populations of two densely populated cities in Japan.

    One should not be this short-sighted. Iraq had little to no sectarian troubles before the US invasion. Saddam Hussein was a US-supported secularist who persecuted people from all religious and ethnic groups, namely anyone who dissented against him. There has been relative peace in Iraq for 1300 years, explain this.

    On another note, the Iraqis are Muslim. They will remain Muslim and any attack against their religion is an attack against them. Until you realize that as long as you, and others, insult and belittle the religion of the Iraqi people, Islam, you cannot hope to win hearts and minds.

    It strikes me than this excuse of Iraqis killing each other, can justify further killing of Iraqis and occupation. This same excuse was used against the Native Americans whose land America has stolen through genocide and occupation. If the past is any prediction, it seems the Iraqis shall be the new Native Americans in this century.

    Here is your chance to ask her yourself. Ask her straight and you will get an answer. I find it rather idiotic when people form their own views about others based on prejudice, and try to pass this off as fact.

    Specific targets like wedding parties, allied soldiers, schools, mosques, hospitals, and civilian neighborhoods?

    That's not true. There is not one monolithic Shariah. By allowing the practice of other faiths, Islam does provide temples, festivals, judicial courts, and other facilities for religious or secular minorities.

    You obviously have never been to a Muslim country. You may want to ask some Americans you have been there. Hypewaters may help you in your quest.

    A good MUSLIM individual. And yes, there are plenty of good Muslims who are also good human beings, I hope you realize this.

    Buffalo, you must realize that unless you can speak with respect to Muslims and respect their religion, it is impossible for Muslims to respect you. Whether they are Iraqis, Afghanis, or American Muslims, you should learn to respect the religion of Islam because it has created many beautiful and lovely people throughout the history of mankind.

    Just as we respect your Christianity, so too, please respect our Islam.
     
  13. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    You have just proven my point, you as SAM have just went to the Morally Relative argument, and have not addressed the murder and mayhem committed by Moslems on each other and the rest of the world.

    You ask for respect for your Religion, but on a whole your religion show little respect for it's self, the rights of those not Moslem, and any other Religion, but Islam.

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    And your list of crimes are from your opinion, war is Murphy's Law in full effect.

    You actually believe that we target Wedding Party's on purpose? allies?

    Maybe the problem lies with the Moslems on Jihad, who have used civilians as shields, Red Crescent Ambulances as supply trucks, the Cover of being a wedding party to safely move to ambush points, plant IED's.

    Something called a curfew, was and is in effect, and that curfew is well know, so why were those people out well after curfew moving across country.

    Only the Bahi, of the Moslems, have a theology that respect all, and I have nothing but respect for them, and their plight, I have seen how they are treated in the halls of Islam.

    In my replies to you I left it open, for you to denounce Islamic Terrorism, I denounce any criminal Acton on the part of the west, and called for Investigation, Charge and Trial of any who are accused of crimes, Trial by Evidence, and Peer, and the presumption of Innocence as Codified in our Constitution, and if found Guilty Punishment.

    You failed, you went to a defence of Terrorist Islam by the Morally Relative Defence, the same as SAM, and every other Moslem on this Forum.

    So, I ask You to reply, Do you denounce the use of Suicide Bombings that Target innocent Civilians, fellow Innocent Moslems, do you denounce the Beheading of any and all, do you denounce the rape, sodomy, torture, and killing of Pow's by those of Islam in the Name of Allah, and that such acts are not for Allah but against Allah.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2008
  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    What POWs? Where?
     
  15. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, that is the problem, Islam kills the majority of any it captures, civilians and Military.

    I have posted many pictures of what is done to Coalition Soldiers Captured by the Moslem Jihad Terrorist in Iraq, and they are removed, but I can post some more for you.

    Were are the Red Cross Lists of those captured on the Battle Field by the Insurgents and Jihad Terrorist of Islam ?

    OH lest we forget they don't survive long enough to make a list, or even be interviewed by the Red Cross.
     
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    The Coalition soldiers are invaders. You cannot be a terrorist when you are defending your country from invaders.

    Calling people whose families you are actively killing for no reason as terrorists is a shameful and low act.
     
  17. DiamondHearts Registered Senior Member

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    2,557
    My crimes? I'm no criminal, I haven't committed any crime.

    Neither have the majority of the Muslims of the world. Criminals are criminals, regardless of their religion.

    "Terrorist Islam?" How do you expect to every have peace in Iraq if you disrespect their religion and heritage?

    The truth is you have a self-induced mental condition whereby you can only justify your existence and mindset by hating people you do not understand. You literally spend hours and hours attempting to vilify Muslims and increase hatred of Islam. Your hatred has consumed you.

    People like you wish to make everything black and white, US vs THEM, our values vs their values, etc.

    I'm tired of people like you. You need to grow up. How old are you? Aren't you older than 50? You are an old man. I know teenagers, even children, who have more sense than you.
     
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, I'd like to see his reaction if his entire family was bombed at a wedding.
     
  19. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, there are a large number of people doing just that. Here's some evidence to support it:

    1. O ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers .... and let them find harshness in you. [Koran, Repentance: 123]

    2. Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute. [Koran, Repentance: 29]

    3. O believers, do not treat your fathers and brothers as your friends, if they prefer unbelief to belief, whosoever of you takes them for friends, they are evil-doers. [Koran, Repentance: 20]

    4. Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends.... whoso does that belongs not to God. [Koran, The House of Imram: 60]

    5. The earth is flat, and anyone who disputes this claim is an atheist who deserves to be punished. [Muslim religious edict, 1993 Sheik Abdel-Aziz Ibn Baaz Supreme religious authority, Saudi Arabia]

    6. If someone becomes a Muslim then apostatizes, he would be asked to repent; if he does not repent, he should be killed. [Imam al-Shafi'i, The Ordinances of the Qur'an (part 1, p. 289)]

    7. Somebody may say: ‘Do you want to deny freedom to people?' We say to him: ‘If what is meant by freedom is to disbelieve in God's religion, or the freedom of infidelity and apostasy, then that freedom is abolished and we do not recognize it; we even call for its eradication, and we strive to oppress it. We declare that publicly and in daylight"' [Dr. Taha Jabir's, "The Islamic Society" April 17,1984, p. 26]
     
  20. DiamondHearts Registered Senior Member

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    2,557
    The Quran verses pertaining to Surah at-Tawbah relate to war against a specific group. In Islam, there is war only with those who make war on others, i.e. self-defence.

    You left out a few verses, namely:

    You can read the full Surah here: http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/9.htm

    Furthermore, Bin Baaz is hardly an legitimate authority on Islam. There is nothing in Quran or Hadith which says anything of the shape of the earth.

    You can find answers to the rest on a couple of active threads.

    I have answered these questions before, do you have memory problems?
    Why do you post these arguments, it seems, on a monthly basis?
     
  21. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    That is the typical bullshit we always hear from Muslims, and it is bullshit.

    Your answers are merely parroting of Islamic propaganda sites. The words in the Quran are crystal clear on non-believers. Denying that makes you a liar.
     
  22. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Another atheist who spends all his time demonising a religion while people are being murdered in the name of secularism. Clearly, words are more important than deeds.
     
  23. DiamondHearts Registered Senior Member

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    I don't accept Bin Baaz as a legitimate scholar. Do you want me to?

    My answers come from my life experiences and knowledge from being a Muslim. There is a type of understanding, developed by reading Quranic verses in order and in their respective context, which cannot be faked through reading propaganda sites as you have clearly done.
     

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