!! an atheist knows what's gonna happen to him after death!!

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by scifes, Jul 20, 2009.

  1. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry Scifes, I just noticed you requested to be banned. Hope you get to do some study in physics and biology. See ya.
     
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  3. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    ID in the sense that I described is empirical speculation.
     
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  5. mike47 Banned Banned

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    Are thoughts and dreams....etc matters too...?.
     
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  7. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Ok.
     
  8. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    What do you mean, ok?

    It is!

    Given: Intelligence exists
    We observe: intelligent entities can alter [stuff]

    Given: everything has a cause
    Given: everything observable is either intelligent or not
    We conclude: everything that happen(s) is caused naturally or by deliberate action on the part of intelligence

    The above is especially true on earth and absolutely applies; if you come across a factory in the forest, you understand 1) the factory exists and 2) something "caused" the factory; you might conclude that intelligent entities are behind the factory, or that it simply arised naturally, although the former makes more sense to me.

    Given: the universe had a beginning
    Given: the above

    As we don't know what caused the universe, we conclude, based on observation, that the universe either formed without intelligent cause, or because of/with it (one's justification for this could be to point to the "fine-tuning" of the universe, or the sheer complexity of it); ironically enough, intelligence causes complexity, yet it is caused by simpler processes and mechanisms
     
  9. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Well, it's speculation alright.
     
  10. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    I never said otherwise; but it's logical speculation. If you come across a factory in a forest, and you conclude that people built this factory, then that is also speculation. However it is based on previous knowledge and logic.

    Similarly, we understand that intelligence can exist, intelligence can deliberately act to arrange complexity; as we don't know what caused the universe, we can still conclude that it was either caused deliberately or accidentally.
     
  11. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    It's still wrong.
     
  12. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    What is wrong about it? You do not know what caused the universe; nobody does, and there's no evidence for it being accidental or deliberate. One could argue that it was deliberate on various grounds:

    1) the above that I said
    2) the "fine-tuning"
    3) the complexity of it

    Although I'm not suggesting complexity can't arise from natural means, because in fact all complexity does arise from simpler, natural means. However the question is about our universe.
     
  13. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Sigh.. Norse, I'm not going to discuss ID. Sorry.
     
  14. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Why not?

    Let me ask you this: do you believe that other intelligence exists, apart from humans?
     
  15. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Because I think it's stupid.
     
  16. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Why? I really want to know why you think it is stupid.

    With the great scope of our universe, and possibly many universes beyond, I think it's actually more unlikely that we are alone.
     
  17. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    I agree.
    Now, leave me alone. Pretty please ?
     
  18. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    NO!!!!

    Why do you think it's stupid?? If you agree that it is unlikely that we are alone, then it isn't stupid. Because that's all it means, except that not only are we not alone but that intelligence is responsible for our universe.
     
  19. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Bleh!
     
  20. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Well, maybe you think humans are all alone, but I don't, so I guess that's the difference.
     
  21. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    I didn't say that.
     
  22. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    If you think we're not alone then you agree with me.
     
  23. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Nope.

    Look.. this could go on forever, apparently.
    So I'm just going to stop replying to you in this thread.
     

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