Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

?

Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    I see a lot of circumstantial evidence here that really doesn't apply to the question at hand - where as ID has run the numbers, you are content to spout the same shit over and over again. I can, literally, call you an asshole for that, because that is the function of an asshole (or anus) - to excrete shit. And that is just what your previous post is - an excretion of shit.

    Post some proof, or don't post. It's pretty simple.

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  3. ricrery Banned Banned

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    I did, now go find proof that it isn't true, because this was given by people smarter than anyone here.
     
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  5. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Only when you take the above examples COMPLETELY out of context can you make the assertions you try here... I honestly pity you if you don't have the logical facilities to tell that for yourself.
     
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  7. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Done and done. And who might those people be, hm? A few friends over at SD.net perhaps? That is worth a good ROFL, or at the very least a saving LOL.
     
  8. ricrery Banned Banned

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    No, L-W, a guy who's beating the shit out of this guy called "Picard578", proceed to post #66
     
  9. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    L-W, a guy who consistently ignores what is stated by STARFLEET ENGINEERS as well as CAPTAINS to be the capability of their ships weapons (not to mention Reeds estimate was FAR under for the Phase Cannons... they were far more potent than he expected). L-W, a guy who DENIES on-screen evidence as "circumstantial" and "inadmissible." L-W, a guy who cherry picks to the extreme what evidence he wants to use, including the LINES OF SCRIPT from an episode, so as to try to paint Trek in a weaker picture.

    That L-W? Yeah, he'd make a good politician... not so much an engineer.

    Some of L-W's arguments:

    Now, if you really can't tell me why those statements alone show A) his bias and B) his idiocy, then I feel bad for you.
     
  10. ricrery Banned Banned

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    Then why don't you argue with him? He is steamrolling Picard578 right now. Really, if Rama was a bad debater, then what is a good debater? Other than someone who says "PRETTY PICTURES PROVE MY POINT"
     
  11. ricrery Banned Banned

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    Ciaphas Cain is an OoM more powerful than anyone in ST.

    Really? W40k ranges go up to 400,000 km, twice as much as ST ranges. Ignoring those anti-ship weapons, we also have Volcano Cannons that can level cities (bigger than modern day ones) and fire twice at the same time. They are in the megatons to gigatons, and are incapable of taking each other out in one shot unless it's a finishing move. Like ST ships could take them on.
     
  12. Ilithi_Dragon Dragon Overlord Registered Senior Member

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    Regarding C., in "Inheritance" they're drilling a hole into the mantle of a planet. The energy levels discharged were never specified, and it was never specified if they were discharging at maximum yield. Actually, because they were firing a sustained beam, with no concern for beam duration time, implies that they were discharging well below maximum yield. This does not contradict higher yield figures we see in other instances, such as "Q Who?" when we see low petajoule-range energy discharges, and low exajoule-range yield effects against the unadapted Cube.

    In "Return to Grace" we see the jury-rigged disruptor cannon destroy an asteroid that appears to be at least 2/3s the width of a Bird-of-Prey (eyeballing it based on the size of the pulses relative to the BoP and relative to the asteroid, making it ~90 meters in diameter) with an impressive explosion, and a minimum yield can be calculated from that, but determining the energy of the yield is still difficult. For all we know, the bolt punched right through the asteroid, obliterating it yet leaving most of the bolt intact. We know this didn't happen with the bolts in SW, because we can see the backfield behind the shot (and in TESB, we are IN the backfield), so we know the entire bolt was absorbed. In this case, the backfield of the target is obscured by the exploding target, making it impossible to know for sure if that was all the energy in the shot.

    It should be noted, however, that even if it WAS all the energy in the shot, it's still much more impressive than the shot we observe in Wars. The ~90-meter asteroid is completely obliterated, with only small chunks and debris, much more impressive than the light turbolaser bolt popping a 20-meter diameter asteroid with similar results. It was also apparently a rather weak shot, since we've seen capital ship weapons obliterate BoPs with single shots, and other weapons from even relatively small ships do more damage to Klingon BoPs. With a proper power source, the disruptor may have been able to fire more powerful shots, or at least at a much higher rate of fire.

    So we have a Wars light secondary gun popping a 20-meter asteroid with all its energy, and a Trek light or medium gun mounted on an inadequate freighter popping a 90-meter asteroid with similar results. Given that the 90-meter asteroid is much more than 10 times the size of the 20-meter asteroid (~90 times, in fact, almost two orders of magnitude).

    It should also be noted that the first asteroid Dukat pops looks very similar to the asteroid popped in TESB when it explodes. Getting a firm size is difficult, but eyeballing it from the beam, it looks to be roughly comparable in size to the TESB asteroid. The beam duration of the Cardassian phaser was longer than the duration of the Imperial turbolaser pulse, so the turbolaser would have been more effective, but but if it's still a comparable amount of energy discharged, it would have trouble doing anything to an unshielded BoP.



    True, the velocity of the torpedo was ridiculously low, and while the atmospheric pressure would have an effect on increasing the ability of the torpedo to penetrate, I don't think that's enough to explain it. We have also seen more energetic impacts with less damage/penetration, including ships and shuttles crashing into the ground.

    We know for a fact that Starship construction materials are exceptionally strong; tritanium is 21 times harder than diamond, and duranium is exceptionally dense (an isotope of duranium, duranium-235, is equal in mass to the main uranium isotope used in fission bombs, over four times as dense as iron (most common isotope has an atomic mass of 56). It is unlikely that a torpedo with a kinetic energy of only a few megajoules would be able to penetrate over two meters of even tin or copper, let alone an alloy of metals that are harder than diamond and at least as dense as uranium. It's also interesting to note that the torpedo itself, with a much, much thicker skin, is not deformed in the least. Even if it was made of stronger materials than the hull of the ship, penetrating that much metal should have at least deformed it considerably, yet it doesn't even look scratched. This suggests that it wasn't the kinetic impact alone that allowed it to penetrate.



    Yes, the nuke could have done significant damage to the Enterprise, and this is not inconsistent with the weapons yields of the TOS era. In the TNG-era, however, weapons yields and endurance have increased significantly.


    They fully expected to vaporize the asteroid, leaving nothing bigger than a centimeter in diameter. It turned out to be composed of different, denser, and apparently more brittle material (brittle is important, because it would fracture and be propelled away after absorbing less energy) than their scans detected, and is common in asteroids. It also contained manufactured technological components that may have added to the asteroid's structural integrity. They THOUGHT they were dealing with a typical asteroid, and the results they expected can be applied to a typical asteroid. The fact that their scans were wrong and that it was NOT a typical asteroid, and the results for an ATYPICAL asteroid were not the same as the results they expected for a TYPICAL asteroid, do not negate what was expected for a typical asteroid.


    And yet we've seen ships and shuttles fly into the coronas of stars before, and we've even seen Birds-of-Prey skim the surface of a star.


    Yet we see them withstand 100-200+ petajoule torpedo blasts. We know that there are exotic energy weapons in Trek that play havoc with shields and materials not hardened against them, and the main weapons in Trek are prime examples. Phasers, for example, have typical energy yields in the high terajoule to low petajoule range, yet against unhardened targets have the effect of a discharge in the high petajoule to low exajoule range.


    The transport ship Jenolan had some number of gigawatts at least in use in the shields (since Scotty could squeeze a few more gigawatts out). How many gigawatts were already in use, and how that compares to a fully-functional starship is unknown.


    That has more to do with the nature of Trek shields. They project a constant, relatively low-level field that can spike up tremendously high around a concentrated point for brief moments (such as when the Constitution class Enterprise was able to spike the output of the generators high enough to deflect an energy blast equivalent to 90 photon torpedoes). This makes them susceptible to lower levels of energy that are all-pervasive, however, as the generators can only spike up so high.

    Additionally, the velocity of the Enterprise and the Echo Papa 607 drone through the atmosphere is not known.


    Are you sure? Assuming an ~Earth-sized planet, that fireball looks quite considerable in size. The atmospheric shockwave is also quite considerable. Besides, the torps were being used as a delivery method for trilithium resin, not for raw explosive yield (and for the record, Sisko should have been hanged for over a dozen court-martialable offenses he committed in firing upon Solosos III).
     
  13. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks for the backup ID - you know more in-depth info about each instance than I do

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  14. Ilithi_Dragon Dragon Overlord Registered Senior Member

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    That's because I only maintain the clever illusion of a life. } ; = 8 P
     
  15. ricrery Banned Banned

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    I have sentenced you as a heretic, have a nice day.
     
  16. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    I have sentenced you as a Hatter - enjoy your mercury poisoning

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  17. ricrery Banned Banned

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    Doesn't scare me.
     
  18. Ilithi_Dragon Dragon Overlord Registered Senior Member

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    Mmmm, delicious heresy...
     
  19. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Then you've never seen Johnny Depp as the Mad Hatter in Alice in Wonderland... else it would terrify you beyond all reason.
     
  20. Apocalypse2001 System Lord Registered Senior Member

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    everybody, here is a video of a favorite guy of mine who makes amazing videos. The graphics/composite work in this will put a smile on your face. And of those of you who know how sluggish and sloppy an At-At is, will find this hilarious:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CVYOCMpJRY
     
  21. ricrery Banned Banned

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    I've seen worse. I'm also waiting for Kittamaru to go argue with L-W.

    Kittamaru's Status: Dead, presumed eaten by locals.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2010
  22. ricrery Banned Banned

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    Goddamn Zinc is stupid.
     
  23. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Why would I go "argue" with a moron like L-W? Only a fool argues with a fool... and L-W is a mega-ultra-fool for spouting some of the shit he's blowin.

    Oh, and "seeing" worse and "being" worse are two very different things - you don't know what mercury poisoning does to you, do you.
     
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