Islam and Terrorism

Discussion in 'World Events' started by sandy, Jan 27, 2008.

  1. Giambattista sssssssssssssssssssssssss sssss Valued Senior Member

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    We have some Christians like that in this country of ours. Good thing they don't get very far with their visions of a Godly, Levitical Law-based judicial system.

    "Ah, if only this were the good old day, when you could stone those uppity chilluns for mouthin off to their parents."

    I've heard something like that, somewhere.
     
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  3. Giambattista sssssssssssssssssssssssss sssss Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, terrorists are out there. And in here. I've always had this suspicion that Bin Laden is hiding in a cupboard somewhere. Go to fetch some olive oil one day, and there's that beard, just waitin' for me!

    Al Cobra. Osama bin Cobra Commander! An international terrorist organization, determined to rule the world!

    Ever see Rumsfeld holding up that picture of the hi-tech underground bunker that our Cobra Commander-in-Chief apparently had in the mountains of Afghanistan? And he further tells us that there isn't just one of these, but many?

    I never quite heard about any of those being uncovered, let alone multiples.

    Probably they were cloaked.

    http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/nether_fictoid3.htm

    There's a video out there of a British commando talking about not finding any of these elusive Al Qaeda.
    Only because Cobra bin Laden gave them individual cloaking devices to blend in with the bleak terrain.

    I do recall Herr bin Laden as saying in his 9/11 denial of culpability spiel that killing of innocents was frowned upon. He said it was another group that had its own agenda. Didn't he also say something about the enemy being closer to home (US)?

    Oh, well. He's such a crafty bugger.
     
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  5. Ja'far at-Tahir Grand Ayatollah of SciForums Registered Senior Member

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    Actually, the righteous Jews and Christians will enter paradise. Not only this, this is a childish and moronic mischaracterization of the sura and it's message. Only a fucking 13 year old armchair militant would pick a fight with a sura that is saying, "you do you're thing, I'll do mine." This is really you're argument? You're really trying to start an argument against co-existance? It's not comparable to the segregation in the United States at all. Not only this, I don't have any motivation whatsoever to address you're other hysteral bleats.
     
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  7. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    We call that The Patriot Act©

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  8. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    What about Buddhists? Shinto? Hindu?

    Well? Are they as righteous as you? Are they going to enter paradise in equal numbers as Muslims? Is their faiths equal to yours? Which path are you going to take Ja'far? Tolerance or Intolerance?


    (actually, by now, you probably have poor association tracts between your amygdala and forebrain. That's one of the conclusions I'm coming to when it comes to some people's abstract thinking processes - the CNS is very plastic, this doesn't mean it wires itself "better" only that it CAN re-wire itself - in response to environmental pressures. Like praying 5 times a day. I only wonder if it may be the meme's that are causing various pathways to deteriorate or if this is a DNA thing? I'm leaning meme's.)

    Here's a challenge; try to think about this: 1950s American Christians taught their kids that Arab Muslims were inferior backwards sand-niggers that will burn in Hell for rejecting Jesus and that Mohammad was the Prophet of Satan - the Qur'an is a book of Satan. Gee I wonder if they prefaced this with To you, your way, to me, my way could this lead to the sort of ignorant violence we see ALL over the world?

    DID it?


    MAYBE it's be better if 1950s Amercians had taught their kids that all regions are the same way? EQUAL Ways?


    So? How about those polytheistic Native Americans Ja'far at-Tahir? When you say: To you, your way, to me, my way are you also saying that their belief is equal in validity to yours or are you suggesting theirs is inferior to Islam?
    - How about the polytheistic Japanese Shinto?
    - The polytheistic Hindu? The Buddhists?
    Are these people's belief equal to yours or inferior?


    To you, your way, to me, my way. Yeah we Americans did that sort of thing for many centuries. You can still see this mentality in old Bugs Bunny cartoons back when Arabs were routinely seen as an inferior violent people - oh, and gee, we're in Iraq killing many of them today. Coincidence? Could it be that the prejudicial intolerances of 1950s may have reflected something back to us of the way we think?

    (note: don't hurt your brain there buddy)

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    To you, your way, to me, my way
    To you, your way, to me, my way
    To you, your way, to me, my way

    NOTE: AND remember boys and girls, Bugs' way is the Only way.

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    To you, your way, to me, my way
    To you, your way, to me, my way
    To you, your way, to me, my way

    NOTE: AND remember boys and girls, Bugs' way is the Civilized way.

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    To you, your way, to me, my way
    To you, your way, to me, my way
    To you, your way, to me, my way


    NOTE: AND remember boys and girls, Bugs' way is the American way.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2010
  9. Café Cappuccino Truth can only be half said Registered Senior Member

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    Coexisence can only exist with people who have a degree of tolerance. The question is, like the one about paradise, "Who will enter the paradise of free and peaceful societies?" Not everyone. Islam might not need to be abandoned, but islamiyya, definitely yes. It must be dumped like the Europeans dumped Christianitas (and BTW they are also dumping Christianismus while they're at it).

    And if you can't have islam without islamiyya, well, then you know what they will need to dump to come into free societies.

    I personally don't believe that is possible, as it isn't possible in Israel and their blue laws and the US with their homophobia and atheophobia. The only way IMO is French style Laïcité. No religious speak in government, no crosses nor burqas. Nada, niente, nil, nothing: your religion is your private business, so keep it that way.

    If social peace requires it, then that's the way to go. And social peace requires it.
     
  10. Ja'far at-Tahir Grand Ayatollah of SciForums Registered Senior Member

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    There answer is no, if you are talking about Buddhists, Shintos or Hindus. If you are talking about ahl al-kitab then it would depend upon there own individual conduct and behavior within this life time. None of this doesn't mean that we can't coexist within a secular society. Not everyone is going to agree with each other in terms of faith, religion and so on. I am not hurting anyone, I don't go out, with al-Qur'an in my hand, banging on doors and the like so what's the problem? Even if I am wrong, shouldn't I be allowed the freedom to practice whatever cultural fetish I choose? Provided I "harm none"? Is that what you Westerners go on about all the time? Freedom?

    "A person is either your brother in faith or your equal in humanity."-Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib (as).

    Funny how you're throwing a bitch fit over some "tolerance," when you're the one being intolerant.

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    This argument is incoherent and pathetic psychobabble.

    If you knew anything about Islam you would realize why this is a stupid question and really it doesn't mean a fucking thing. You're fighting air.

    Not to mention the rest of your post is borderline racist.
     
  11. Ja'far at-Tahir Grand Ayatollah of SciForums Registered Senior Member

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    Islamism doesn't equal Islam.

    In other words people can't practice harmless religious expression? Why can't a woman were hijab when it it's wajib in her faith? How is a fucking headscarf harming anyone? Not only that, how is a cross necklace hurting anyone? I mean come on. I can understand this "seperation of church and state," but this ban on religious "paraphenalia," that is harmless and that (as in the case of European states trying to ban both the burqa and hijab) is wajib to their faith. In my opinion that is totally intolerant and doesn't reflect the the freedom that Western democracies preach and jack off about.
     
  12. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, you should have the freedom, enshrined in Law, to believe and think as you would like. I 100% support you on this one.

    Is there a problem with a person teaching their children that Whites will go to Heaven and the inferior races like Blacks and Arabs will burn in Hell? Well? Do you have a problem with that Ja'far? I mean, they're not going door to door. It's just their flavor of Intolerance - one that they like teaching their little WASP kids at home. Or how about this: Jews teaching their kids that Palestinians are inferior sub-humans that do not deserve God's Land as has been promised to the Chosen People, who happens to be (get this) Them! Any problem with that Ja'far?

    I don't mean to piss you off. But, you want to debate why Intolerant philosophies such as yours are fine and dandy - then let's do it. Like I said, I 100% support you should, by Law, be able to teach your particular flavor of Intolerance, the one where Buddhist, Shinto and Hindu are inferior flawed philosophies. Much like WASP White Supremacist can teach their kids that Blacks, Jews and Arabs burn in Hell for being inferior flawed sub-humans.

    Not hurting anyone - right? It's all good for our pluralistic societies.

    I wonder: Can you believe in The Intergalactic Warlord Xenu (that's the "God" of the Scientologists' Religion)? Oh, no you can't. It's pretty much impossible isn't it? I mean, try as hard as you like, you are never going to suddenly start believing in an Alien Warlord from Outer space called Xenu. Can you change your skin color? How about your eye color? Try as hard as you like, you are never going to suddenly have different skin and eye color. See, Racism and Religious Intolerance are the same side of the same coin.


    Now, I simply would like to address this with education. Children living in a pluralistic society should be taught about why it's not good for our secular society to teach things like Racial supremacy. Children should learn that races do not exist. We made that meme up. It's not true. Then we can move on and discuss Religion and why intolerant religious memes are also bad.

    As the world shrinks, this is the way things will go. Which is good - I think you'd agree?
     
  13. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    We can say the exact same about the KKK Klanhood and Swastika can't we. I mean, it's the harmless expression. It's not harming anyone.

    AND yet, get this, it seems to piss people right the fuck off.

    Hmmmmm I wonder why? Could it, oh I don't know, be because of their Intolerant supremest attitude and the fact that every now again one of these little WASP shit-heads goes and Murders a Black person - because they were taught this intolerant hatred their entire life? (Reminds me of the Sufi who were killed in Pakistan last week)

    I support you 100% - - people should be allowed to were hijab and klanhoods. You can't force people to be tolerant. That only comes through education and introspection.
     
  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I don't recall any verse which prohibits them from being equally accountable as say Jews or Muslims. Quranic verses claim that there has been a prophet among all people and to quote tiassa's post again:

    http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1844099&postcount=423

    See also:

    http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1595224&postcount=75

    And since you are such a devoted follower of the Ahadith:

     
  15. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Woohoo! :thumbsup:

    wait. does this mean there's gonna be moslems in hebbin and we all gots to to git along? :bugeye:

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  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not a devotee of the Ahadith. Logically speaking they were not collected until 100 years after PBUH died, and went on being collected for another 700 years. Second, the system of citation or isnad developed slowly over centuries. So you have older hadiths with poor isnad and later hadiths with good ones. Thirdly, being able to say 700 years after the fact, who said to whom, is not an accurate measure of what was said. [Have you ever played Chinese Whispers?]

    But Sahih Muslim and Sahih al Bukhari are two of the better collections with more fine tooth combing of both isnad and age. So its a good example of a "most likely to have been really said" hadith. Seeing as it meets what we consider to be adequate academic criteria of classification for the veracity of hadith

    http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Hadith/Ulum/asb7.html
     
  17. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    I call it riddah.
     
  18. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    accountable SAM? Really? Accountable???

    WASP: I don't ever recall David Duke (PBUH) ever saying the negroid race wasn't going to have to cross the same finish-line as the Whites. PBUH only says that they're an inherently an inferior human race.


    In short: I find it sad to think there could ever come a day an Indian would come to see her own cultural icons and systems of belief as inherently less.


    Ooooo but that does bring up this: Is it fair that these people raised in an inherently sinful and flawed system - have to pass an equal test with the oh God so "perfect" Islamic people's?

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    Gee is that fair!?!?!? I mean, the little people's SAM, LITTLE PEOPLE!!!!! (and their cute little painted elephant chick that they can touch and hold... oooo, who's a cute infidel... *coochie coo* who's a cute infidel....with their cute little idol.... ).
     
  19. Café Cappuccino Truth can only be half said Registered Senior Member

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    I did not say that.

    Woah, freedom, not license!

    What do you mean by "Why can't a woman were hijab when it it's wajib in her faith?". This is nonsensical. Just becuase something is allowed or required in a religion doesn't mean it should be allowed or required by an enlightened society. Backwards is backwards, and societies protect people even from their own retrograde beliefs.

    Anyway... The hijab is a form of oppression EVEN if it is willed. Democratic societies have always had forms of restraining behavior, yes, including willed behavior. Rational freedom does not include license for whatever that tickles your fancy.

    But it's not only that, it's also the barbaric sharia law. Of course, that is only an extreme example. All laws based on irrational belief systems are a scourge on humanity.

    Suppose the Hindus believed not only that eating meat is bad, but also that the government should force people to comply? Or the government allow them to take "justice" (of course it's not justice, it's brutality brought about by delusion) in their own hands parallel to the actual legitimate juridical system?

    It's madness.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2010
  20. Café Cappuccino Truth can only be half said Registered Senior Member

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    In principle, yes. But the government also has the duty of protecting people. Open societes do not wait for people to learn from the sublime grace of sheer reason. Why? Because they know people by and large are not rational.
     
  21. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Yes accountable. What do you think faith means? Its what makes you choose to be accountable. Why else would faith demand fidelity? Its when you discard all moral qualms and responsibilities that fidelity becomes irrelevant. Otherwise, yes, its all accountable.

    He who has done an atom's weight of good shall see it. And he who has done an atom's weight of evil shall see it.
    (Surah 99:7-8)

    How else would you have it?
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2010
  22. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Let me get this straight: you're saying that the Hindu, Shinto and Native American polytheistic faiths are equivalent and equally as valid as Islam? Or are you saying they are no way shape or form nearly close to equal with your "perfect" Qur'an and Allah inspired Mohammadism - but, your myth suggests that you God will hold these people equally accountable.


    So, either the religions are equal and the people are held to be equally accountable or their sinful religions are inferior to Islam, but, the people will still be held to be equally accountable? Which is it SAM? Oh, that's right, you're a monotheistic Muslim, it's impossible in your ideological-theistic framework to accommodate other faiths as being equal in validity to Islam. I guess that just leaves us with the opinion you were being slightly misleading in your post. Which thus seems you were acting as an apologist. Which suggest you feel uncomfortable about some aspect of being an intolerant monotheist? Why would that be? It's what Allah wills. Your job isn't to question the will of Allah. Right. Don't think, Submit to Allah's Will SAM. Then you get a cookie.

    (note: all cookies will be compensated only in the afterlife)

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  23. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    We'll see on judgment day if Allah is punished by his own standards. Considering Allah has done much more than an atom's weight of Evil it'd be fun to watch the Universe lay the smack down on Allah as he's reincarnated as a douche for "His" insolence.


    Note: Is it even possible to find a single religion on the face of the earth (including Scientology) that does not have in it some sort of phrase where by the good are rewarded and the bad punished? Talk about obvious. This one id definitely for the little people - the one's who paint elephant chicks. Right SAM?
     

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