Star Wars vs Star Trek

Actually, we go by canon and Paramount says only TV Shows and movies. Lucasflim Limited has a different approach.

And I am sorry the Q are not Gods, not even close, they are clearly and advanced race, but even in their state they have limits. Remember Q was afraid of Guinan, not just disliked her, but was afraid. He also could not duplicate the Traveller effect and seemed bound by other limits as well. They are simply a race with sufficently advanced technology to seem like magic.

Now against Ang Ti monks the Q would find an advesary roughly equal. Certain force users like Luke Skywalker, Kyp Durron, Yoda, Darth Sideous, Darth Bane, and Darth Vader would be people even Q treated with respect as truthfully to a Master of the Force nothing is impossible.

 

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Actually you are forgetting the most important rule of temporal mechanics YOU CAN'T TRAVEL BACK IN TIME TO CHANGE THE PAST!

DOing so would leave you no reason to go back and thus it wouldn't happen. God I hate when stupid people try to think.

 

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Well stop thinking

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Exactly, there would be no reason to go back. What's the problem here??

 

Okay here is your paradox. If you go back in time to kill Hitler before he comes to power and commit atrocity after atrocity, then in present day there is no reason to go back and kill Hitler, thus he lives and commits atrocity after atrocity.......and so on

Do you get the point? Going back in time to alter an event is not possible. If Q went back in time to stop the creation on the Staff of Darkness it is 100% certain that not only will it be created he'd be the one indirectly responsible.

 

Why did you resort to name calling earlier? Really, this is a sci-fi debate, if you feel the need to call people stupid then maybe you need to take a break from the keyboard for awhile.....
Just a friendly suggestion.
Back to the discussion.....
This would also lead to the alternate timeline and alternate reality paradoxes, which we have seen plenty of examples of, and not just in Trek. Stargate, Andromeda, Trek, Red Alert, Sliders.....
I can't really comment on anything more than that because the canon material just isn't there. We could use the novels from Trek to make a better case, however, the novels are not considered canon, which I can agree is where Trek runs out of gas in this battle. My only point is that during the TV series(which is the only canon material the Trek side has on Q) there was nothing the Q couldn't do unless stopped by another Q, so that's been the foundation of my statements.

 

Oh look... it's a me-too'er for TW Scott who signed up on this board more than a year after I did, who replied to what I said only by calling me a "toady" rather than addressing anything I brought up. (Let me guess, you two know each other from that website you both keep linking to.)

:bugeye: Oh, sure, I'm here to "distort" things by citing RSA's website, Starfleet Jedi. Oh, wait, no, I thought it was ST-v-SW.net that was maintained by the one you call RSA, who really concentrates on clarifying "canon" to the exclusion of the EU... when I was talking about material within the EU. Chew on that for a little, hm?

Sian, if you're just here to call people names, go home. If you want to delude yourself into claiming that the ridiculous claims you're citing aren't contradicted by the rest of Star Wars, go ahead... but the rest of us aren't buying it.

As far as the whole "Staff of Darkness" deal goes... start invoking the ridiculous and we get nowhere. At that point it becomes pure whim as to who wins in any case.

 

*sighs*

Guys, I'm going to be cutting out of this somewhat suddenly.

I just found out my best friend is about to be deployed... I'm rather worried about him.

I'll be back eventually just... for now I'm a little pre-occupied...

 

Wish him well ....

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Actually name calling would be referring to you as girlie-man, big-nose, fart-breath and I have done none of those. In fact I diidn't call you stupid, merely expressed my frustration that some stupid people have a poor grasp on temporal mechanics and try to use it as method to say they can do anything. I blame writers of later episodes of TNG, DS9, Voyager, Andromeda and so on. They completely ignore the rules set down by precedence in their own universe.

And I suggest you return to school and get a proper education. Obviously you have some talent and I am afraid that the school system failed you in some respect.

They never crept up in Trek until after Roddenberry died and the writers threw away some of his rules. After his death writers adopted several models of temporal mecnahics that obviously had not been Roddenberry's vision.

Actually if that were true he would have been able to make Riker says yes to becoming one, he also would have been able to seduce Janeway. Those are but two small samples. The fact that the Borg are allowed to continue to exist is proof of the Q policy on minimal intervention(at the least) or proof they lack omnipotence (more likely) or proof they enjoy watching others suffer (at worst). They could possibly intervene in an intergalatic war, but they are as likely to be the ones who bring it about for entertainment.

Now for the argument, since nothing has been proven to be beyond the Q by the same token nothing has been proven to be beyond the Force. So the Q are countered by Ang Ti and neither one is threat. In fact we can assume that all Force Spirits, Dark Side Spirits, Ang Ti, Q, and every other hyper advanced form of life will be in a stalemate while the mortals are doing the real fighting.

 

Why so hostile? It's just a sci-fi debate, lighten up. What are you, 14 years old??

 

Hostile? I paid you a compliment.

Actually i am sick and tired of people who do not take the time to analyze the whole situation before entering an argument. I myself and a huge Trekkie, I even remeber when the cartoon series ran on television. However I suffer no delusion that the entire Milkway would not be crushed by the Alliance, let alone the Hutts, Chiss, Vong, New Republic, Empire, or Hapans.

 

I am only going to say this once because this is already ridicoulous as it is. CALM DOWN. ITS STAR TREK, NOT GLOBAL WARMING.

Please, stop the insults.

This goes for everyone.

 

And the Q aren't the only protectors of the Milky Way.

you don't like Gigatons? you don't like 60 millionC? you don't like 5e37 joule superlaser? That's tough. Published, approved, not contradicted by higher source. None of your squirming can make it stop being canon.[/QUOTE]



It's not like Milky Way cultures will need alot of protection from lasers flimsy fighters. I think the Federation could handle an incursion or two.

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Heres what is actually...The stories and the events that occur in the books and other published materials are canon....However every thing else isn't neceissarily canon.

The end of the argument is that the Films of the Star Wars' hold sway just like the on screen of Trek.

I think no matter what these monks can do...there still no contention for Q who have no weaknesses except amount themselves...

HA HA HA HA HAAAAA!....... HA!

I actually saw that coming when I was reading that this morning. Good stuff.

Yeah that's pretty much why he's here. He had just finished his talk glass of STHU and is back for more.

The gods debate is stupid....Theres nothing like the Q and they have no rivals.

 

170 pages and your still debating whether star war could beat star trek? Give me brake, give it a rest, neithor one could win. No the Force cant kill Q. Force it has it's limits, Q's dont, they only choose to have limits has you seen on show. The like to play mortal way.

Nothing has been proven to be beyond the Force, ha ha ha hardly i don't remember the great Emperor, blinking the rebellion away using the force. The force is simply another kind of force, just like gravity, it has so many limitation it isn't even funny. Q can create planets, entire reality, force can choak some lame redshirt or at best confused a Storm trooper who counldn't even add
1 + 1 = 2, "Storm trooper do the math" "sorry not programmed to" Face it force is worthless and Q choose to be weak Only in book have i ever read that force can do somthing usefull, inwhich case force "witches" choked several thousand strom trooper. So even then they had look at them, be super close range and they couldn't even do it to luke sky walker. Q get bored he could wink the force away the jedi would be mere mortals doomed to die of bordem. No force, no sith, no emperor.

No more exscuse, god ship (Aka : sun crusher ect), or making star wars weapon super powerfull, i hear one more time about bs about quantum torpedo are has powerful has turbo lazer towers i might just go crazy and rape cow are two. They couldn't even beat the rebellion, and they had even had war in thousand years.

Just face it, your empire is doomed to join federation, surrendered after federation help rebellion kick empires ass.


Man happy trek fans aren't this stupid ...

 

First of all, Dontai, if you are going to join a converstaion at least learn to argue correctly.

You argument about the limits of the Force are groundless. An Ang Ti monk can teleport from one end of the galaxy to the other without strain, and bring along Imperial Class Star Destroyer. Luke moved one of the Super Black holes of the Maw in order to end the war with the Vong. One Sith superweapon involved calling down solarflares. Anakin remained alive despite losing three limbs and being set afire. The Emperor reincarnated himself several times by transporting his soul to a ready clone, he had even done this with others. Twelves Padawan's moved a large fleet of Victory and Imperial class star detroyers far enough out of Yavin system it would take a month to get back by Ion engines.

Seems to me like the Force is pretty all powerful, if you learn to use it right.


Second Star Wars weapons has consistantly proven to be orders of magnitude more powerful than any Star trek weapon. Even the V'ger torpedoes from ST:TMP. Why? Simple Star Trek hamstrung itself several times. One of their most powerful ships produces 2 terrawatts at the best as per Riker's comment. That same ship has shields easily crushed by a 400 gigawatt blast. It would take the entire compliment of Photon Torpedoes to blow apart a mostly hollow sphere of rock 5km in diameter. You can fire a photon torpedo within 50 meters of your captain and he'll survive. Want proof of the weak power of Photon Torpedos, watch ST:WOK again. Two unshielded ships take mutliple hits from Torpedoes and the explosion of the torpedo is hardly more than a few dozen meters. And some how the slightly beefed up Quantum Torpedo is supposed to complete with a 12.5 gigaton laser cannon. Yeah right.

Besides it's universe against universe. Q vs Ang Ti, Palpatine, Anakin, Yoda and Luke, Alliance and Imperial forces against a coalition of the Federation, Klingons, Cardassians, Romulans, Borg, Voth, and Dominion. No matter what treknobabble (or in your case cow-raping) you come up with you are outgunned, out numbered, out fought and out thought

Oh, and there was Peace in the Republic like there has been peace on Earth since WWII.

 

Dont try to frighten me with your sorcery ways scott, The Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe. DarthVader, is all that remains of their religion. All of your False words and ways don't frighten me.

No jedi monk, sith or fish stick has those abilities, your force hasn't mange to defeat rebel alliance or do any thing of any apparent importance. It isn't even a concern to me. Your power are useless. I also, really dont care what george lucas says now adays, not since he made last couple of films. He is showing his age. I trust facts of original films and new ones didn't even follow path of first three, and to further the discussion, people that made your books were fools, i have read many star wars book, i have not read any that says the thing, that you say, nor do i care to, take your sorcery ways shove it up your ass.

I'm going to get star trek book aproved by vicom, and in this book we can fire 11 billion terrawatts Phaser and 50 billion terrawatts photon torpedoes to fight absurd with absurd.

'One of their most powerful ships produces 2 terrawatts at the best as per Riker's comment." What eps? What yeild?

It would take the entire compliment of Photon Torpedoes to blow apart a mostly hollow sphere of rock 5km in diameter.

- Not true i see them do that all the time with phaser and torpedoes.

You can fire a photon torpedo within 50 meters of your captain and he'll survive.

- One word low yeild

Two unshielded ships take mutliple hits from Torpedoes and the explosion of the torpedo is hardly more than a few dozen meters.

apparently you haven't heard of armor so why bother arguing with you

And some how the slightly beefed up Quantum Torpedo is supposed to complete with a 12.5 gigaton laser cannon.

- right, thier is propably one in existence, if at all...

Q -> kills -> Ang Ti, Palpatine, Anakin, Yoda and Luke

Federation, Klingons, Cardassians, Romulans, Borg, Voth, and Dominion kill
imperial forces.

I have watch star wars your fire power isn't that strong. Watch first three movies again, your weapons fire power and every thing els is useless, cool but usless. You dont have many star destroyer, you have many worlds yes granted. I will not have battle to see which us could make up stupidest shit; which what people in your book did. so shut up about your absurd book, and becuase, far as i really care, you can shove the book up of your ass. If i did want listen to you rattle on about your books, i could name few good absurd trek book ...

 

Be prepared for lying from here on out, Dontai...he'll hit it with a mass that will keel you over...

TWSCOTT kinda built a reputation for making things up on the server.

 

yeh well so do i

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good luck trying to trick the tricky trickster :bugeye:

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O i also forgot in the future, we have multi armor system: hull armor (as seen in every episode of trek) ablative hull armor (as seen in ever episode of Ds9. At the time it was experimental )and ablative armor (seen in End game) In 30st century we have all three equipped on are vessels. We have hull amror and ablative hull armor already attached to the hull, plus we have ablative armor on stand bye just in case, it is needed. Once it is in engaged your entire imperial fleet could fire at it and at, very best you might be able to weaken the armor.

nothing thing short of death star firing could possbly destroyed ship with it equip. So if you attacked during tng era you proply will win, ds9 you might win, future era you proply have your entire fleet wipe out by hand full of ship. Even if you advance 500 years in your weapons, it wouldn't matter, you would still loose. I read some were that tranphasic have 900 gigaton or 900,000 terrawatts explosive yield. That why they can blow of cubes so easy. If you attack future era, we just fly in with are armor up Then fire couple transphasic torpedo and your fleet would be history. Future pawns!