Star Wars vs Star Trek

Aren't you in a sense just repeating me? Or is it the fact you don't like the word paradox used in this context? Whether they can see the out of phase future st ships is irrelevent. The point is we fall into an infinite loop with the future st's and the siths ability to see all possible futures even if things are in motion.


Here is an interesting thought. IF the empire sent an extra galactic invasion force that using hypdrive spent 10,000s of years to invade the milkyway and show up about the time of VOY era. No time travel there.. would the future federation get involved then if there is no temporal incursion?

 

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How could he not? He wanted his story about a different galaxy not a different universe.

 

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However we do see many circumstances where all fire arcs are covered by multiple turrets so why do you assume WDs have massive blind spots when other ships have the common sense not to?

Really? Could you link them? I have only seen sliencer 7 pics. I haven't seen any schematics of the rest of his fleet that each other WD has a different design. Unless you do have pics I fear there are not enough images to be certain that each WD has large blind arcs.

 

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No John..you did not take your speculation to the obvious end. If they (Jedi or Sith) ignore their visions of bad battle results, the Warsies will have already lost. THEY cannot go back in time to attempt to avoid the failure, therefore time will not enter a paradoxical loop. The Warsies ships will have been either blown up (by future Fed intervention) or never entered the Trek universe (requiring no future Fed intervention) in your postulation.

What? STVOY is where we see the most involvement by the future Federation. These guys mantra and mission is to preserve their existence. Hyperdrive or temporal incursion, a Warsie invasion in any of Archer/Kirk/Picard/Sisko/Janeway's times or locations counts as an interruption or threat to the timeline that results in a successful Federation.

I'm still waiting to see a challenge that cannot be combated by the future Feds.

 

Indeed I did. The Sith don't ignore bad visions of the future. They see all the good ones and all the bad ones. Then if they feel they can get to a good future outcome they will attempt to do so while dodging the bad ones. Sometimes they fail as seen in the emperor's death.

It isn't an issue of sw using time travel to go back if the war goes bad. The question is would invasion take place to begin with. If treks would use the future feds and defeat would be the outcome with no hope of victory the attack would have never happened. Then we again fall into the paradox as mentioned above.

As it was explained to me was that the future feds only interefere when a temporal incusion has taken place. Is this not the case? If not then you are telling me that the future federation would blantently ignore the temporal directive and interfere with the natural timeline to make the feds stronger?

Wow...

I agree. The future feds is the "IWIN" button of the trekkie side for sw vs st debate.

 

NO we do not. The attack therefore does not happen! It ends right there.

The future Federation interferes when the timeline that results in a powerful and successful Federation in their time is threatened. From there perspective anything that disrupts their past is an incursion. Indeed, a destroyer fleet from an unknown race (to their) history counts as an incursion.

COrrect.

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Also, far-future Trek = humans are now stronger than even the Q... so yeah, the jedi and sith would probably simply blink out of existance...

 

The point of the temporal incursion is this.

FACT: Future Federation exists.

FACT: If the Empire takes over VOY era Federation, Future Federation wont exist.

THUS: To protect its own existence, the Future Federation will help out.

So is Q. WHAT in Star Wars can combat Q? NOTHING. He can destroy entire galaxies on a whim. Then recreate them all again.

 

Sure it does. Because the attack never takes place the future feds don't go back in time. Then suddenly the future changes and the sith see a future with success. And then it cycles again ad nausium.

Although not a temporal incursion. Look, any action we are talking about in a st vs sw conversation alters the plot, canon, and futures. If the empire comes to the st galaxy without using time travel then it is what was meant to be.

So basically what we have here is the federation using time travel to alter the natural course of events for the sole purpose of making sure the federation remains.

Interesting.

 

I see where you are coming from but you are not correct on how the future is altered. There is no one certain future. There are some futures where the future feds exist and other futures don't. And if a change in the time line occurs that doesn't mean your future federation ceases to exist it just means a new branch is created with an new altered future. I draw this conclusion from your canon:

ST:TNG episode 711 (Parallels).

So your assumed fact of the future feds isn't true in all of the futures. So unless the empire uses time travel I don't see why the future feds would help out. Their future isn't in danger.

 

Then why would there even need to be Timeships? Timeships are there to protect their timeline. In Enterprise, the loss of Earth meant that Daniel's 31st Century Federation was a wasteland. The Future Federation WILL help, or else their timeline would be obliterated. The multiple Federations from Parallels were from multiple Universes. The Future Federation of regular ST Canon wouldnt bother themselves with the other universes.

Again, YET another weapon we can use. Since there are literally infinite universes, EVERY single Federation, Borg, etc. from ALL the multiple-dimensions can enter the fight.

GOOD LUCK, STAR WARS

 

Assuming that the borg don't pop thru and assimilate all of you. But if we assume all forces are allied it indeed would be a powerful weapon. Considering your future federation have no problem altering natural timelines to maintain their power I doubt they would have any problem doing it also.

 

And, if the Borg assimilate the entire Federation, it doesnt matter. The Future Federation will keep the Borg in check.

Basically, NOTHING can destroy the 24th Century Federation without getting the Future Federation involved. And, if the 24th Century Federation is destroyed, so will the 27th, 28th, 29th, 30th, 31th, 32nd Century, etc. They ALL will help.
Star Wars still loses since the Borg will turn their sights to the Galaxy Far Far Away next.

 

Im sorry, I think you have mistaken me for someone trying to debate the st vs sw galaxies....

You stand corrected.

 

But it doesn't make sense.

 

At this point I have assumed nothing.

I would suggest an image search. That's what I did. One black and white schematic and several comic book images were revealed by google. Not that much effort is required.

 

Could you explain that sentence?

Technically, all the alternate universes are ST Canon.

 

Besides the fact that their fire arcs have large blind spots.

I did the same. All I could come up with are pics of silencer 7 and some other pictures that didn't show any information on the tractor beam fire arcs.

 

Im not here to partake in this debate being I don't agree with the all era/all races allied stance you all have taken. I think to assume all era and to align one galaxy against another despite the fact that canon says these galaxy's forces would never ally is wrong. So in essence we violate each galaxy's canon with these set of rules.

Im just here pointing out the strengths of both st and sw.

 

See above post