Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

?

Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. Saquist Banned Banned

    Messages:
    3,256
    The phaser is a primary beam weapon. It's power is secondary to the Photon. (Proven in Canon)

    But yes, the comparison was fair.
    Both the ISD and the Galaxy had unshielded object
    Both destroyed their target in a second of time.


    So you agree
    The Enterprise just does it aginst more material than the ISD, and a denser material than the ISD's target. Thus Phaser is far superior to the light turbo laser..


    Essentially the ISD could fire it's enire array of antifighter lasers and it would only equal one second of fire from a Type X phaser array. It's clearlly a fighter weapon.

    As far as your "astronomical" claim that has not been proven.
     
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  3. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Anything else you want to bitch and whine about?
     
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  5. Saquist Banned Banned

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    Prince James, it sounds like you're just making the most minimum amount of effort to argue. Why don't you pull some canon to prove your point. Few people will read the links. Honestly if you are not bothered to isolate the text or images which support your theory why should I labor over all the links your provided. Most people Have read the Destroyer.net information. It's slanted to Star Wars and against Trek. There is nothing Objective about the analysis when you refer to the other side as Federation cultist. I think I stopped reading about there and realized he was taking this far too seriously.

    Untill you prove otherwise. The phaser beats the anti-fighter turbo laser by 60 times (proven and on screen) and is in competition against the heavier turbo lasers. Where the phaser falls short the Photon and Quantum Torpedo more than make up for. The odds tip in the Federations favor because of more unique and advanced technology. They've been mentioned before and are quite common as weapons in Star Trek.

    So...whether you accept it or not. Right now it's definitive that the phaser and the other Trek Weapons are far ahead of the most common TL (antifighter) and on par or above with heavy weaponry. For me to change my thinking you will have to layout some new information that is just as clear or find an error in my analysis. Good Luck!
     
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  7. Saquist Banned Banned

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    The bold is an irrelevant statement.
    Data states that they've destroyed 20% of the Cube.
    This of a vessel constructed with Tritanium. As further proof look back at the image. The crater is as wide as the Enterprise which is some 400 meters wide. My estimate of destroyed material was 240m (spherical) that accounts for some 50% of the volume in the crater. At 240 meters that still equals a whole Miranda Class star ship in Trek and then some which is 233 meters long. All this in one burst of phasers at maximum

    May I remind you, your argument has not disproven the facts as they've been layed out. You've not provided your own research or your own observations.

    Not to mention in the episode the Ninth Degree Geordi can get the phasers even "hotter". And to PROVE that we've seen this happen before on a ship of the same size...The enterprise D destroyed the USS Lantree, a Miranda class starship (TNG Unnatural Selection) with a single torpedo strike. The ship was completely vaporized with no debreis at all.) We know trek and Star Wars are more equals than Wong proposes. This argument proves his Trek estimates wrong on every level.
     
  8. Flectarn Unregistered User Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    347
    some planet bashing quotes fom TOS... a little more vague than dies is cast, but oh well.
    Spock and Scotty Talking.

    It's worth noting that the inhabited area of Exba II is fairly small... but Scotty, the chief engineer still feels the enterprise is able to "wipe out a planet"

    it's also interesting that Garth, an inhabitant of the planet has apparently developed an explosive of such power that a "flask" full could vaporize the planet

    apparently Trek anti-matter is special... and obsencenly powerful. This would have the effect of upping the destrucitive potetial of Techmanual Torpedos considerably The cobalt bomb bit isn't terribly useful since the primary method of destruction there is radioacitve fallout.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt_bomb
    http://www.voyager.cz/tos/epizody/72whomgodsdestroytrans.htm
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2008
  9. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,214
    Flectarn:

    On the Die is Cast:

    http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/The_Die_is_Cast_(episode)

    As the Cardassian-Romulan fleet fires on the Founders' homeworld, they are initially pleased with the damage they are doing to the planet, but Garak quickly discerns that the Founders are using an automated transponder to send back false life sensor readings from the planet. Suddenly, 150 Jem'Hadar ships emerge from the Omarion Nebula and engage the fleet. The Battle of the Omarion Nebula begins and the Jem'Hadar begin to annihilate the fleet. This engagement is later compared by Admiral Toddman to the Battle of Wolf 359.

    Methinks that, once again, Star Trek is over estimating its own power. As evidenced later when the Dominion Fleet of Jem'Hedar and Breen ships unleashes its full power against Cardassia Prime and kills less than a billion Cardassians and only manages to lay to waste the major cities. No crust melting. No "continents to glass" (a phrase used quite litterally by Canderous the Mandalorian in 5,000 BBY). Nothing.

    The Romulan Fleet's incapacity to stop the Dominion is more evidence of the fact that they are speaking out of their asses on their own military effectiveness. They were bamboozled by the Dominion, who then went to summarily crush the Romulan interlopers.

    DS9, by the way, kicks ass. Lots of violence.
     
  10. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,214
    Saguist:

    When Star Trek produces one billion Genesis Devices, call me.

    See the image I provided. One ISD. Not a fleet of ships.

    Why would it be anymore dangerous than using a proven faulty cloaking device?

    Where did the Enterprise blow up any asteroids with its phasers so utterly?

    Slave 1 is not a "fighter"? Only. Gunship? Extremely light freighter? Contrast its size and armament with a standard fighter. The distinguishing factors are null.

    Again: No one is claiming that fighters blow up asteroids in Star Wars the size of the asteroids in that belt. Enormous ones with fucking space worms inside several. These are fucking planetoids like Ceres. No fighter is going to blow that shit up and I freely admit it. Tie and X-wing fighters do not normally come equipped with stuff to blow that up. However, in AOTC, we see HUGE asteroids blown up by the SLave 1, with appropriate weapons for the task. Tremendous, hulking asteroids. Not on par with space-worm asteroids, but certain hundreds of metres large - more than skyscrapers worth of rock and iron.

    Actually, Star Wars weapons do not follow one method. Star Wars has:

    Shells
    Missiles/Torpedos
    Blasters
    Ion beams
    Disruptor Beams
    Turbolasers
    Sonic Waves
    Ambigious

    Penetrative ability is a feature of weapons designed with penetration in mind. A tank shell not calibrated to penetration is not going to penetrate anything. This is why bunkers are effective against anything but bunker buster weapons.

    Okay, then if we can't reference real science, then here's my invincible argument.

    Star Wars kicks ass.
    That which kicks ass always wins
    Therefore, Star Wars wins.

    Please. You know full well that this entire debate falls apart if we can't use science to help us calculate power.

    The astronomical claim comes from the real power of an ISD conducting a planet-melting BZD. This is dependent on laws of science which would govern the type of power necessary to melt a planet that significantly.

    Moreover, I don't concede that the ISD's light turbolaser cannons were weaker than the Enterprise. I point to the fact that your object in question has very low density. Borg Cubes are mostly empty space. This is seen time and time again when we see the insides of these mechanical nightmares. An ISD is attacking a solid metal and rock asteroid with light guns for basically target practice and obliterating them. The Enterprise is trying all it can to destroy the Borg Cube and can only cut through some extremely diffused stuff.

    Colour me unimpressed by the power of the main weapon compared to the light weapons of the ISD. A main weapon, which as you well know, can only be fired in one beam at once...
     
  11. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,214
    Kittamaru:

    Then quite demonstratedly wrong. Planetary bombardment in later series does not result in anything near this. The crew of the Enterprise either has technology far in away more advanced than the crews in DS9, or they....well, they are completely ignorant of what they can and cannot do.

    Pardon, it was the Constellation.

    Okay, so...secondary power then rig it to explode.

    Okay, how about we send in a Tie FIghter with a seismic charge inside it? Kaboomies. Problem solved.

    I don't know who you are tlaking to, but Hyperspace Gates are not held to be superior whatsoever in EU sources. They are relics of past intergalactic empires who had inferior technology by the time of the Empire. Some super weapons fo past epochs have at times been seen as great. Like the Starforge during KOTOR's time period. But the Hyper Gates? Laughable means of transport!

    Moreover, your Voth transwarp capabilities? Very slow. They aren't able to reach the Alpha Quadrant in hours.

    Place the Millennium falcon in the deepest part of the Gamma or Delta or Beta quadrant. Give Han Solo the order to get himself to Earth. Within two weeks, account for navigation, he'd be there. If he knew a good route, it would take under a day.

    Also, to note: The Aing-Ti monks appear sponteneously wherever they want to with their ships. They blink through space.

    The one speed which does baffle the mind in ST? The Traveller warping them out of the universe past galaxies in seconds. Where "thought and reality intersect" or some shit.

    There are several artifacts in SW that permit time travel. Suffice it to say, they are not widely used - just like in ST. Moreover, if ST can use time travel to save themselves, why didn't they do it against the Klingons? Or Cardassians? or Dominion? Or Borg?

    Here's an idea: Time travel 100,000 years back. Attack the Borg homeworld. Eviscerate it.

    But no? That doesn't happen. There's a good reason: It cannot be done. Time travel in ST is extremely limited in its effects.

    You do realize we are dealing with humans, not robots? When there are cases of underestimation, it is a human flaw. But...not all battles are matters of underestimation on any side. Any objective reading of the movies would not pretend to show that every battle was won "because one side was too confident!"

    I'd also like to point out the insufferable arrogance and unctuousness of the Federation but that is irrelevant.

    Q can't erase the universe. He has never even erased a galaxy. The worse he did was destroy a space empire by supernovaing a sun. Sorry, but the Ang-Ti can pull shit like this, too.

    The entire idea of the warp drive is that space is essentially acting as a "wave" which the ship rides. This is how they avoid time dilation, inertia, and breaking C. The ships are not "accelerating" to warp. They are engaging warp - which sends them hurtling on a warp wake. This is why the galaxy was experiencing severe problems when it was found that areas of space were becoming unstable from the heavy warping and thus the mandatory speed limits placed on ships until it was figured out what caused it.

    Dude, it takes about a day to go from the extreme Outer Rim to the Galactic Core.

    http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Propulsion/Propulsion2.html

    The speed is millions of times C. Star Wars is so fast as to make intergalactic travel trivial. This is why we don't talk about quadrants in Star Wars which are absolute boundary points which take decades to cross. Rather, we talk about rims which are political zones -easily bypassable since ancient times-.

    By 25,000 years BBY, humans had gone from Coruscant (outside the galactic core) to Ossus in the Outer Rim. This was before hyperdrive.

    Star Wars ships can travel just as fast, as evidenced in ESB. That there are times when it is difficult to hit hundreds of small moving targets is fairly natural, considering........that is how it tends to be.

    also, the "small craft" which you speak of? Not particularly small. The Defiant is huge compared to a fighter. It also has a phaser system which seems to be the only in existence that fires quick bolts instead of one long beam.

    Dude, I corrected myself. It was an error. Jesus Christ, calm down. Take a fucking sedative man.

    Han Solo, without hyperdrive, navigated the Falcon several dozen lightyears to Bespin. Star Wars ships are accordingly capable of FTL travel without hyperspace.

    Subspace is an antique technology in Star Wars. It was used in the time of Xim the Despot. You'd thrownig spears at M1 Tank here.

    http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Sensors/Sensor2.html

    Those battles were this:

    Enterprise (or other ship) flees from the other ship. Other ship pursues.

    The only large scale battle we've ever seen did not include such tactics.

    Okay, bring a single dyson sphere to bear against the Empire of billions of planets. See how that works out for you, champ.

    You also forget that the Deathstar? Is a moon. And your tractor beams are not going to rip apart a heavily armoured, shielded, and defended battle station. Try those other weapons - they have shown a track record of failure. The Deathstar II was extremely heavily shielded while still under construction. When created, it would have been utterly impossible to defeat by a ny Star Wars power at the time, and would have made the Federation, Borg, et cetera, wet their pants, when it was taking pot shots at planets and blowing them to smitherines without hope of retaliation.

    Why would an ISD start blowing up an entire asteroid field as it is pursuing the Rebels? Also, you do realize that asteroid fields are several million individual asteroids? Blowing it up en masse is infeasible. One has to attack it piecemeal.

    The movies never have a situation in which an ISD is situated outside of a planet, waiting to melt it. Only the EU does - and they do very easily and effectively. Tarkin Doctrine.

    You do realize that shielding is on par with the technologies the Empire has, yes?

    Of course it can't blow through a planetary shield if the shield matches the power the Empire has.

    Clearing a path is not vulnerable. But why would they just take asteroids slamming into them? That's ridiculous.

    If you want to claim seismic charges would be ineffectual against shields, go ahead. But if this shit hits your ship, it is going to do some damage - as evidenced by the wreckage it does on other things.

    When you remember, we can talk about that ep.

    As to hand phasers. Okay. They can vapourize someone. On a low setting, a simple handgun blaster ignited all the internal organs of General Grievous.

    Also, when phasers are used in rifles, the effect seems to be no better then the average blaster pistol.

    Again: It is not a penetrative weapon. Why are you expecting there to be some damage when it is clearly not geared towards such?

    yes there is. That's what physics is for.

    You're still not addressing the fact that the "massive gaping hole" was mostly there before it was blown apart. I am not saying the phasers were completely ineffectual at melting and attacking the armour of the Cube. But the Cube is a diffuse ship.

    So we're supposed to assume there is an entire fleet the comic isn't showing?

    LOL.

    That's pretty ridiculous, man!

    Save when it came time to do so? It failed.

    Cardassia Prime. QED.
     
  12. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,214
    Saguist:

    I am trying to give you some sources, my good man. The source is about...three pages long. It is pretty easy to read. These posts are huge enough as is. We can avoid huge amounts of copy/pasting, can't we, by pointing where it is all ready written?

    Torpedos in ST are held to be 2.5 times better than phasers, no? I fail to see how this is held to be tremendously advantageous, when Star Wars is again showing weapons that are making this look rather pathetic compared.

    /quote]So...whether you accept it or not. Right now it's definitive that the phaser and the other Trek Weapons are far ahead of the most common TL (antifighter) and on par or above with heavy weaponry. For me to change my thinking you will have to layout some new information that is just as clear or find an error in my analysis. Good Luck![/quote]

    Look at my diffuse Borb cube comment.

    20 percent of a largely empty space cube is not that impressive.

    "I destroyed 20 percent of the cork wood structure!"

    Compared to

    "I destroyed 20 percent of the tungsten structure!"

    Indeed. The ship is blown to smitherines, ala the Deathstar blown up. The torpedo is quite powerful in this case. Of course, this ship was unarmoured and unshielded, no? Plus you hvae the core involved in the explosion...Soooo, colour me slightly less impressed than I would be.

    Also, I do not see why you want me to go and do my own research when the research is there. When there are pieces where research is needed, I'll do it. I'll go and review scenes, tapes, et cetera. Whatever. But when I can find reliable information from an engineer (I am a philosopher not a scientist) why should I not accept it?
     
  13. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,214
    Flectarn:

    Again, those quotes you reference are proven hyperbole by later evidence of these things later going down. The Federation is apparently entirely ignorant of the technology they use, or DS9 has inferior technology to a hundred years prior.
     
  14. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    Trek doesn't attempt to turn the planet to glass... their ultimate goal was to wipe out an ENEMY, not a PLANET.

    God, are you daft or what?

    And the Dominion were able to rip thru the shields of the Romulan ships like they weren't there... as Rommie ships rely more on SHIELDs than ARMOR... ya know?
     
  15. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    A Phaser Array can be fired in over 700 beams at once... each emitter segment can fire a separate beam! This has been SHOWN over and over for fucks sake!
     
  16. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    I will not let this discussion drop my IQ by listening to the rantings of a madman...
    I will not let this discussion drop my IQ by listening to the rantings of a madman...
    I will not let this discussion drop my IQ by listening to the rantings of a madman...
    I will not let this discussion drop my IQ by listening to the rantings of a madman...
    I will not let this discussion drop my IQ by listening to the rantings of a madman...
    I will not let this discussion drop my IQ by listening to the rantings of a madman...
    I will not let this discussion drop my IQ by listening to the rantings of a madman...
    I will not let this discussion drop my IQ by listening to the rantings of a madman...
    I will not let this discussion drop my IQ by listening to the rantings of a madman...
    I will not let this discussion drop my IQ by listening to the rantings of a madman...
     
  17. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    Fine, even IF the cube is 30% hollow... it's base material is 20x the strength of DIAMOND.

    What's more impressive?

    I vaporized 100% of a diamond that was 30% air

    OR

    I vaporized 1% of an iron billet

    Take your pick...
     
  18. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,265
    It is possible that they weren't trying to wipe the entire atmosphere off the planet.

    Once again, lower yield torpedoes.

    One does not need to like them, they can be projected anywhere without and end conduit ever being constructed. And yes, faster than hyperspace.

    What? The SW wiki? That states that a Turbo Laser is a scaled version of a laser canon. ST ships are impervious to lasers!

    That doesn't mean they cannot prevent projectiles from attacking them.

    Have you seen how vast the Q are? They know EVERYTHING. Henceforth they cannot be defeated.

    We are talking about ISDs.

    Sorry, those fighters would be pick off instantaniously with multiple low power phaser shots.

    Perhaps, but using broadside tactics against an enemy that can snipe you from a long distance away is not a very good tactic.

    Hey, I didn't write it, I'll try to find the book and get it.

    That's my POINT, they didn't destroy Cardassia Prime because that's WHERE the dominion base of operations was! You know, the founder and Weyoun?
     
  19. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,214
    Kittamaru:

    Replicators don't make Genesis Devices, my good man. They don't make starships, either. Or a host of other things. Replicators make hot coffee.

    The picture shows one. There is only one referenced. The canonical evidence is one ISD slagging an entire planet on its own. Finito.

    Yet you just said it could cut through the asteroid. BS they'd "die for sure" from that.

    SOURCE. Give it or shut up.

    Okay. Gun frigate. Enjoy your minor semantical victory.

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    Significantly larger than three times. The asteroids are dwarfing it.


    Shells - Ep 3 (you actually see the shells)
    Missiles/Torpedos Ep 1-6
    Blasters Ep 1-6
    Ion beams Ep 5 and 6
    Disruptor Beams Ep 6 (Boba Fett uses a handheld disruptor rifle)
    Turbolasers - Ep 1-6
    Sonic Waves - Ep 2-3
    Ambigious - Ep 2-3

    The words "broadsided" come to mind.

    Agian, it isn't geared towards penetration.

    Yes, science abounds in Star Trek. "Let's clean the baryons on the ship!" "Oh, you mean all the atoms?" "Why yes, yes I do....CoughIshouldhavelookedupwhatbaryonmeanscough".

    The EU is canonical according to Star Wars. If you don't like it, tough shit.

    You claim a huge gash is made. The majority of that gash is open air. The phasers attack the rest of it.

    The Death Star has metres upon metres of armour and tremendous amounts of internal space kept up by struts, et cetera. The "endless pit"? It's the reactor pit. It's only about a hundred feet tall.

    Fucking source that shit. One canonical scene where a single ship fires 700 beams at once in ST. Please. I beg of you.

    The Founders were bugging with their sensors. The crusts showed no such damage.

    Here's how the Empire does it: Get up to a nice speed, cut engines. Wait. Remote detonate the seismic charge. Blamo. Easy peasy Japanesey.

    My precious wiki says nothing about the gates being good technology. LOL. Dude. They are antiquated as fuck. They come from antique civilizations. They offer nothing.

    Reference.

    The Voth never appeared in the Alpha or Beta Quadrants. They were just as stuck in the Delt a as Voyager was.

    And Warp 10 is not infinite speed.

    Rather rapidly? How? By easily meandering through space at 20 million times C? Faster than anything else in ST? Yeah. That'd "destroy him". Right.

    So can the Aing-Ti. The Q are not even remotely more powerful or superior to the Aing-Ti.

    Also, the Q use technology, dumbie. The Voygaer crew uses Q technology at one point.

    Bullshit. Those situations have been end-game and they did not do any shit like this. Repeatedly they were at the verge of collapse and didn'te ven consider time travel missions

    That was a change in the timeline.

    Moreover, the 5 century jump from the future is not really that impressive. Especially, again, considering temporal wars show dramatic limitations on what can be done in time travel...

    Vader underestimates who? He destroys Echo Base. Fucks the Rebels at Bespin. He captures the Princess and then uses her as bait to fine Yavin.

    Tarkin helped keep the Empire at its peak power for 20 years. His only mistake was not realizing that there was one tiny design flaw on the Death Star.

    Palpatine lost because his Apprentice, the Chosen One, killed him.

    Yes, the Continuum has "Rules". Therefore, they won't violate those "rules" for Star Wars, now will they?

    Hyperspace has no acceleration. Hyperspace is dropping into another dimension where the rules of C do not apply. There is no "acceleration" to hyperspace. It's dropping through space into hyperspace. Warp has no "acceleration" either. Space moves, NOT the ship.

    Also, it doesn't move the entire universe. It moves the reference frame.

    There is no technology in ST that allows for offensive usages of warp, by the way.

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Galaxy

    Judging from the maps available, it appeared to be a galaxy of Sb type. According to some sources, the galaxy was 120,000 light years across, or 37,000 Parsecs (a parsec is 3.258 light years) across. A black hole existed at the center of the galaxy.

    No, he was not going "sublight". He was going FTL without hyperspace.

    The Empire has sensors that can see through hyperspace, with objects going 20 million times C.

    Your point?

    It was unique for a significant amount of time. Most of the Dominion War. It was also not on the Enterprise E, if I recall Nemesis correctly.

    His secondary FTL drive is the same FTL that was used prior to hyperspace, presumably. It might even be a warp drive by another name - warp is slow enough to be ancient. Of course, that is simply a hypothetical. What we do know, is that the movies show the Millennium Falcon using FTL without hyperspace. Ergo, there are slower alternatives to hyperspace.

    Also, you do realize that every fighter and other ship likely has these backup FTL drives, yes? Thus Han Solo escaping at lower-than-hyperspace would be impossible. He could not out run the enemies.

    What the fuck? LOL

    Also, Wong has never been proven wrong. Dude, the guy has a BS in engineering and has provided the single greatest scientific analysis of Star Wars ever. Puhlease. Do not tell mle that he is "refuted".

    It also has a quote from a canonical EU novel. Here it is:

    The ludicrous nature of the Federation cultists' sensor claims is most apparent when one realized that their most advanced sensor technology is subspace-based (ref. TM). However, not only do we possess subspace technology (which we still use for inexpensive short-range communications gear) but subspace sensors were used in our galaxy during the time of Xim the Despot, before the dawn of the Old Republic 25,000 years ago, as described in Han Solo and the Lost Legacy:

    "mytag crystals were used in old subspace common and detection gear; you needed lots and lots of them for any spacefleet or planetary defenses."

    Therefore, Federation sensor technology is at least 25,000 years behind our own.

    Good luck using stoneage tech again, bucko.

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    You do realize that the Fed cannot make the Dyson Sphere, right? It is vastly beyond the capacity of the Fed.

    So yeah, good luck with that, champ.

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    Oh, and you have to build the Dyson Sphere around the sun in question. Good luck trying to do that while Super Star Destroyers wreck you into oblivion.

    Yes, that will work on a shielded, armoured battle station, with counter measures a plenty - including far more powerful tractor beams and tens of thousands of gun batteries.

    It wouldn't be immune whatsoever to TL batteries. It would be blown to smitherines with ease.

    Also, the Deathstar did overcome a planetary shield: Alderaan's. It is shown in the movie.

    An -ISD- might not be able to overcome a planetary shield. A Deathstar can do any with ease.

    Why would they need to blow up so many? Only those that are in the way. Plus, why would they waste their ammunition on something not needed?

    The power output of Star Wars shields is far superior to Star Trek. Star Wars shields are capable of sustaining much higher degrees of fire power and solar radiation.

    Planetary shields matching the power of an ISD of course cannot be penetrated. Try matching the power of an ISD! You won't be able to.

    Yes, huge asteroids can over whelm the shields when it is passing at dangerous speeds through an asteroid field.

    A huge rock is going to hurt anything it goes into. Do you know the fucking impact of the asteroid that blew up the dinosaurs? That's what we're talking about here.

    Yes, sure, if you place it in the right place inside it.

    Blasters come in various settings. It wasn't fired at any high level. He shot once and the guy's internal organs were set aflame. Boom. There goes Grieveous. Obi Wan fired a few more shots for good measure.

    Yeah, that is why Worf used those powers, right? Oh wait. He didn't! Nor did any other federation marine do so.

    Not at all, it works on different principles. And it once again was not made for ground penetration.

    No I am not. LMAO When the fuck did I say that? Star Wars ground targets are heavily armoured and often shielded. See: AT AT.

    Look at the outside of the cube. It is mostly open to space.

    The entire fleet of the Jem'Hedar and Breen were incapable of killing more than a billion Cardassians and showed no crust damage whatsoever to Cardassia Prime. Only wrecked cities, which looked better than if they were hydrogen bombed.

    In 5000 BY, an entire city planet (Taris) was reduced to slag by the Leviathan, killing trillions and forcing an Ithorian relief project to completely terraform the planet several years later again.

    Diamond is hard. Not strong. Titanium is a lot stronger than diamond. Diamond is simply hard.

    Colour me unimpressed by a few struts of this metal compared to the HUGE OPEN SPACES.
     
  20. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,214
    USS Athens:

    The orders were to wipe out Cardassia.

    So we are expected to believe that the federation keeps planet killers that they won't use? Or the romulans? Or Klingons? Or Cardies? Especially when the Romulans had a clear shot at the Founder home world?

    No they can't, dude. That is why the Borg can't reach the Alpha Quadrant.

    They are impervious to weak laser beams, yes. Obviouslyt hey would be. So are Star Wars ships.

    Also, turbolasers aren't lasers. As shown through on screen evidence routinely. And I was linking to stardestroyer.net

    A flying fist and a flying bullet work on the same principles, bro.

    The Aing-Ti know everything. What is your point? And the Q know everything now? Q didn't know Picard's answer to his court room.

    Please, try to attack dozens of fast moving targets with "low level phaser shots". Moving at speeds and with manueverability far exceeding anything in ST. I'd love to see it, because Star Trek would fail following those. Especially when the ISD is blasting the piss out of the capital ships while they are at it.

    When were you under the impression that ISDs fight only up close? They engage from quite a great deal aways.

    Moreover, Star Trek ships begin their attack within visual range.

    Dude, Cardassia had -all ready betrayed the Dominion- at this point. The stated orders were "destroy Cardassia". They failed. Miserably.
     
  21. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,214
    Here's the big difference between ST and SW:

    When ST says they'll blow up a planet, they don't. They in fact seem to have no idea to what extent their weapons have any power whatsoever.

    When SW says they won't blow up your planet, they are lying and blow it up anyway. In spectacular fashion. Just to see you cry.
     
  22. Flectarn Unregistered User Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    347
    Prince James,

    I'm just going to focus on TDiC for the moment here, Kitt and Saquist can debate everything under the sun with you...

    first of all... the only sensor readings that were being spoofed were the lifesign readings... thats why they didn't change and the status of the planet did.

    second, look at these pictures and tell me with a straigh face there was not damage to the crust.

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    The fact that other bombardments do not show the same effect shows a difference in circumstances, but does not nessecarily invalidate the incidenent.

    And lastly what point are you trying to make about the romulans not defeating the Jem Ha'dar in the battle. lets consider that, it was an ambush, the dominion forces had shown considerable effectiveness against romulan forces elsewhere, and the odds were 5 to one against them, there being ~ 30 ships in the rommulan-cardassian fleet, and 150 in the Dominon fleet.
     
  23. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,265
    Wipe it of it's population.

    The most logical answer is that wasn't the plan.

    And I hope you do realize that the federation would NEVER destroy a planet. They have morals, the empire doesn't. Which proves that the empire is evil. I hope you concur.

    Yes they can!!! There are can be exit apertures that don't need any construction to create!

    No, just lasers. As proven by the Star Wars Wiki.

    You know that is a rejected site, mainly because Wong hates ST.

    I know, it might have something to do with what the borg expect... Which is a real problem for them.

    The Q are also intergalactic. You see, the Q don't even talk anymore because everything has been said.

    Easy, if you are piloting a craft that is moving faster than a phaser lock you are violating the laws of physics. Who can pilot something that fast in a battle.

    And miss, honestly you must realize that ST ships have extremely longer ranges.

    Perhaps, but they are capable of much longer distances.

    The statement could have been figurative.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2008
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