Afghanistan - What is the objective?

Discussion in 'World Events' started by StrawDog, Mar 11, 2009.

  1. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    yeah, its one of the Mujahideen. He is now the leader of Taliban, famous for breaking the Bamian statues.
     
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  3. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    And when was the Taliban formed?

    There was nothing called the Taliban, Omar fought as a guerilla with the Harakat-i Inqilab-i Islami, a Mujahideen, not Taliban, not even a leader in the Harakat-i Inqilab-i Islami.
     
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  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    The Taliban was formed after the Americans armed the mujahideen and left them.

    What did they think was gonna happen to all these armed militants after they left?

    I believe [but not sure] that Charlie Wilson has given a good account of this irresponsibility.
     
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  7. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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    Buff... The Computer says no.


    Wiki:

    Following the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan in 1989 and the collapse of the Communist regime in Kabul in 1992, the country fell into chaos as various mujahideen factions fought for control. Omar came to head a group of warriors known as the Taliban, or Students. His recruits came from the Qur'anic schools within Afghanistan and in the Afghan refugee camps across the border in Pakistan. They fought against the rampant corruption that had emerged in the civil war period and were initially welcomed by Afghans weary of warlord rule.

    Reportedly, in early 1994, Omar led 30 men armed with 16 rifles to free two girls who had been kidnapped and raped by local commanders.[14] His movement gained momentum through the year, and he quickly gathered recruits from Islamic schools. By November 1994, Omar's movement managed to capture the province of Kandahar and then captured Herat in September 1995.[15]

    CIA caused this problem :

    The mujahideen were significantly financed and armed (and are alleged to have been trained) by the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) during the Carter[3] and Reagan administrations and the governments of Saudi Arabia, the People's Republic of China, several Western European countries, Iran, and Zia-ul-Haq's military regime in Pakistan. The Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) was the interagent used in the majority of these activities to disguise the sources of support for the resistance. Under Reagan, U.S. support for the mujahideen evolved into an official U.S. foreign policy, known as the Reagan Doctrine, which included U.S. support for anti-Soviet resistance movements in Afghanistan, Angola, Nicaragua, and elsewhere.[4]

    The main base station of mujahideen in Pakistan was the town Badaber, 24 km from Peshawar. Afghanistan mujahideen were trained in the Badaber base under supervision by military instructors from the U.S.A., Pakistan, and the Republic of China .The base served as the concentration camp for Soviet and DRA captives as well. In 1985, the uprising of captives destroyed the base, but the incident was concealed by Pakistani and Soviet governments until the dissolution of the USSR.

    Ronald Reagan praised mujahideen as "freedom fighters", and four mainstream Western films, the 1987 James Bond film The Living Daylights, the 1988 action films Rambo III, The Beast and the 2007 biographical movie Charlie Wilson's War, portrayed them as heroic.

    Afghanistan's resistance movement was born in chaos and, at first, virtually all of its war was waged locally by regional warlords. As warfare became more sophisticated, outside support and regional coordination grew. Even so, the basic units of mujahideen organization and action continued to reflect the highly segmented nature of Afghan society.[5] Eventually, the seven main mujahideen parties allied themselves into the political bloc called Islamic Unity of Afghanistan Mujahideen.

    Many Muslims from other countries volunteered to assist the various mujahideen groups in Afghanistan, and gained significant experience in guerrilla warfare. Some groups of these veterans have been significant factors in more recent conflicts in and around the Muslim world. Osama bin Laden, originally from a wealthy family in Saudi Arabia, was a prominent organizer and financier of an all-Arab islamist group of foreign volunteers; his Maktab al-Khadamat funnelled money, arms, and Muslim fighters from around the muslim world into Afghanistan, with the assistance and support of the Saudi and Pakistani governments.[6] These foreign fighters became known as "Afghan Arabs" and their efforts were coordinated by Abdullah Yusuf Azzam.

    The mujahideen won when the Soviet Union pulled troops out of Afghanistan in 1989, followed by the fall of the Mohammad Najibullah regime in 1992. However, the mujahideen did not establish a united government, and many of the larger mujahideen groups began to fight each other over the power in Kabul. After several years of devastating infighting, a village mullah organized a new armed movement with the backing of Pakistan. This movement became known as the Taliban, meaning "students of Islam", and referring to the Saudi-backed religious schools known for producing extremism. Veteran mujahideen were confronted by this radical splinter group in 1996.
     
  8. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    The leaders of present day Taliban are veteran mujahideen.
     
  9. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    The original post does raise an important question, what is the objective? Surely the militants can outwait us, and their terrain makes rooting them out almost impossible. Also, not all Taliban members are as fanatical as others, many of them are citizens of the country we are trying to preserve. In fighting them, we cannot avoid the occasional deaths of innocent people, which creates a public relations problem in addition to the moral question.
     
  10. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    So are their opponents.
     
  11. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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    What do you mean "us" do you hope to obtain Afganistan and indefinitly hold it or by proxy like South Korea? Waste of money EVEN IF THAT WAS SUCCESSFUL.

    Fuck it. Mission "Failed"(according again to the "Official" conspiracy theory), OBL got away, Al Quada has splintered to who knows how many fucking crazies with their own arcane agendas.

    Pull out, pull back. Lock down technology with other nuclear powers to ensure these primitive fuckers never get a nuke and just let the world pass them by. Stop giving them an "Enemy" to fight and they will whither on the vine.
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    The Northern Alliance? All that proves is that the Americans are (as usual)arming both sides.

    They are also still arming Pashtun tribes in the NWFP.
     
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    If the Iraq pattern is followed, the front for it will be somebody like Petreaus - an American military commander, making recommendations from the field that are not phrased as surrender or even compromise, but a different kind of victory.

    One problem in Afghanistan is that the US doesn't have much the Afghanis want and can't get elsewhere. The Sunni in Iraq were facing a Shia majority well armed and increasingly secure, and they needed weapons and US backing.

    It's possible the Afghanis would rather deal with the US than with Russia, China, Iran, or Pakistan.
     
  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I believe the Afghans would rather deal with the Pakistanis. I doubt they would trust the Americans.
     
  15. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Which is a loose association of warlords. Natives can usually fight better than us, having experience with the culture and the terrain. Training them to fight mutual enemies is a major task of our special forces.
     
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah I know. We called it Divide and Rule.
     
  17. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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    And exactly what created this mess. Get the fuck out of other people's countries.
     
  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The Pakistanis have not been such wonderful friends either.
     
  19. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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    I dunno was pretty nice of them to let you drive/fly/walk through their country to get to afganistan, move supplies through them , etc etc costing them a lot of ground with Islamic militants which are now fucking over their country.

    It's almost as bad to be the U.S's "friend" as their enemy. Fuckin waste of time.
     
  20. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    How will Canadian history books describe this conflict?
     
  21. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    Well. Who is talking when you say: Afghanistan does not want an Islamic state ?

    I thought the pretext for invading Afghanistan was to get Bin Laden, dead or alive? Did this change before or after they did not get him?

    This is patently not working. The civilian casualty rate in Afghanistan last year (and continuing this year) is the highest since 2001.
    (from http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-...eded-civilian-casualties-afghanistan-20090226)

    Why do the Afghan people want your alleged savior and democratizer out?
     
  22. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    So. There is no false war against the Afghan people? Why does the West not simply exit Afghanistan and leave it to sort out its internal issues?
     
  23. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    Well thank G-d you are not in control. So given the alleged pretext was/is to establish democracy, you reckon its best just to obliterate the whole country and all the inhabitants?

    You sound just like the US government.
     

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