Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

?

Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    You don't need to deform the warp bubble - the problem was, as a phaser beam passes thru the warp field edge, it suffers degredation. The newer phasers "sheath" the beam to help compensate for this

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    And yeah, you don't need phasers to reach out much past 10,000km... I mean, that's what torpedoes are for

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  3. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    That's my point - Trek shields are superior, but WH40K armor is superior... woul the shields hold up long enough to remove the armor... and can they repair the armor in battle... where as shields regenerate, armor doesn't

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  5. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    6,231
    What? How was that determined? Give me a number for have many joules it takes to blow through 40K shields and trek shield, and explain how you came up with it. Then give me a number for 40k armor vs trek armor, and again, explain how you came up with it.

    If you're going to compare ships from 40k vs trek, it's worth noting that there are about 15 MILLION capital ships in the imperial navy (and several times that number escort and scouting ships), vs what appears to be dozens in the Federation. Even if the ST ships are massively superior, they could slaughter 40K ships all day and hardly make a dent in the numbers. (Note:15 million ships sounds like a lot, but if you recall that they have about a billion planets populated, it's only actually about 1 ship for every 70 planets).

    Most of the 40k capital ships are 5-8 km long, vs around 600 m for trek ships. The "small" escort ships in 40k start at 750 meters. Obviously raw size isn't a direct indicator of fighting power, but an amount of damage that would be equal to the complete destruction of a ST ship would be considered relatively minor damage to a 40k battleship.

    40k ships have galaxy-wide instant communication, something that ST ships clearly lack - that's a major strategic advantage.

    40k ships can cross the galaxy relatively quickly, while ST ships are too slow to cross the galaxy in a reasonable amount of time. That's a HUGE advantage.
     
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  7. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Nasor, you're jumping in late... and with a lot of flawed data. Review the last... 30 pages or so.
     
  8. Nasor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,231
    I'll admit that I'm late, but I don't see how any of my "data" could be flawed, since all my statements about 40k came from its own literature Can you point me to specific posts that figure out shield and armor power?

    I hope the analysis wasn't something retarded like "40k uses lasguns, and they say in that one episode that lasers can't penetrate trek shields" or something like that.

    I don't see how you could compare them, since no real numbers are given for either. You're just comparing their own weapons (of unknown power) against their own shields (of unknown power). Both are stated to be able to devastate planet surfaces really easily, but simply knowing that doesn't really help.
     
  9. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    Really? And your evidence for my shields being weaker comes from what referance exactly?
     
  10. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    you know i was thinking, why hasnt ST vessels created weapons that when fired at ships at warp, tears the target ship's warp bubble apart causing the ship to get ripped apart?

    That would be a pretty badass weapon right there.
     
  11. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    Nasor, you are totally right, but you see, the only way Kitt's feds stand a snowballs chance in hell is that a.) 40k shields suck, and b.) 40k weapons suck.

    And since both of those are not true i seriously dont no how Kitt thinks that he is actually winning the arguement by selling BS.
     
  12. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    Yah but how large is the generator that powers the containment field? Im willing to bet at the largest the size of a room, the smallest, the size of a convertable car.

    But the shield on terminator armor supposedly generated by the dinner plate sized crux terminatus and the left shoulder pad.
     
  13. antaran_1979 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,447
    true, but then again with armour you don't have to consern yourself with environemetnts that pose a shield hazard.
     
  14. antaran_1979 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,447
    what makes you think that it is the amount of jules that pentrates the shields in the first place? is it the number of jules that phasers have that causes matter to destabilise? are point focus weapons more shield piercing then enveloping weapons? you need to answer this things when you analise weapon effectivness.

    the point about laser and plasma weapons is that there is an upper limit of how much energy you can pump into them. no matter how much you try you can't get a more energetic photon then the gamma quants. get too much energy into a plasma weapon and it becomes a particle beam. this is why lasers and plasma are for the most part absolite in the late 24th ST universe. do note that they are still a threat to some mesure, especially for non shielded targets and a large number of threats can compensate for the pure lack of deffence bypass.

    70 ships per populated world is not much. in trek there are only several hundred members in UFP by the time of FC movie and yet in DS9 we see fleets composed of 600+ ships and fleet numbers ranging to at least 9. but milions of ships is far more then thousands. the feds could not hope to withstand that many ships alone. this is where the rest of the galaxy would pop in

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  15. antaran_1979 Registered Senior Member

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    i guess from the effectivness of the weapons used against them and the emphasis on armour.
     
  16. antaran_1979 Registered Senior Member

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    1,447
    you can't "tear" a warp field anymore then you can tear up a magnetic field. there are warp destabiling weapons that the Borg use however. they cause ships to come out of warp.
     
  17. antaran_1979 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,447
    in modern days there are shutlles the size of a convertable car with an engine core the size of a small table and then you estemate the size of the reaction chamber and the containement field. these are low warp ships but still antimatter powered in the Fed examples.
     
  18. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Your own words...

    Las cannons easily overpower shields...
    Armor is used to resist lascannons...

    Lasers, no matter how big, are WEAK and OUTDATED by Trek standards... a LASER BASED WEAPON (Photon Based) has a pre-set physical limit on it's power output. Phaser Cannons were the next evolution on that, and Phasers evolved from that. Pulse Phasers evolved from Phasers...

    Disruptors would be the next step up (which is what romulans and klingons use) but the Federation refuses to use them based on principle - Disruptors work by expanding and contracting the target material millions of times a second... excruciating vs a living being even on stun, where as a stunning phaser has almost no physical pain.

    So, thus, your weapons, which easily overpower your shields (by your OWN ADMISSION) are antiquated by our standards... a PHOTON CAN ONLY CARRY SO MUCH ENERGY BEFORE IT ATOMICALLY CHANGES.
     
  19. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    They have - subspace weapons... they were banned by the Kitohmer Accord and any race found using them is held as criminal

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  20. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Dude... get it thru your head... size doesn't matter.

    And for your information, the Shield matrix on a federation starship consists of dozens, at times hundreds, of separate emitters... making for serious redundancy and power as each generator can be ramped up as needed, increasing overall shield strength.

    Remember, and know this well - raw power and size means NOTHING...
     
  21. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    Just a note - in Star Trek, there are creatures that are able, with a thought, to hold ships in place... including the Enterprise at Warp 9.9...

    And no, I'm not talking about the Q...

    So, tell me - what in WH40K or Star Wars can compete with that...

    "The power to destroy a planet is insignificant in comparison to the power of the force..."

    That comes to mind...
     
  22. Lord Vasago bcd Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    827
    Lasers are ineffective against ST shields. I hear this constantly. this is based on the fact that picard said this when they scaned a ship.
    but this was a small, outdated ship. it has what, 5? ,6? 12? lasercannons ?
    but what if their opponent is a vessel a few times their size with hundreds of lasercannons who are at their 'theoretical max'.

    there's stil a difference for a shield to cope with getting hit on one place and getting hit allover and continiously. and once your generators get fried it won't take that long as ST doesn't really have though armor, except maybe that ablative armor.
     
  23. antaran_1979 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,447
    hmm sub space weapons don't really tear up warp bubbles, they tear up space time being attracted by gravity wells and thier simulators (warp cores). we have no idea of these weapons can be used in warp though.
     
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