The Apollo Moon Missions Were Faked

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by FatFreddy, Apr 14, 2012.

  1. David C On planet earth Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    445
    You see that post above with some red text? You seem to be having a problem answering it, are you playing dumb?

    Why didn't Jarrah's flag move when the circumstances were more favourable, he was square on to it and running? Your conclusion was that the Apollo 15 flag was moved by air, and you flat out deny the flagpole moved. You deny that Jarrah concluded the astronaut was close enough and you offer no logic or support as to how air will be pushed six feet in front of the astronaut.

    In short, your own source explains you far far better than the people you avoid engaging.:shrug:

    The phantom viewers who support you, eagerly await your replies, now don't disappoint them.
     
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  3. David C On planet earth Registered Senior Member

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    445
    You have no qualifications of note to be able to make that claim.

    That is off topic spam. After reading the thorough mauling given to your claim by the debunking-a-moron blog, I shall ask you a question that you also keep "playing dumb" on.

    Neutral buoyancy is reached by counter weights in water. Where anywhere are these mystery wave-blowers used? Give a reference that doesn't come from a conspiracy site.

    You keep indirectly calling people liars. It is YOUR claim that they are buoyant rather than simply floating in space with simple shape memory, it is YOUR claim that it is an anomaly when it isn't.

    Another question for you, do you know how cables are wound when they are made? Ever see a garden hose unravelled? Now this natural tendency to revert to this aquired shape, is unrestricted in zero-g, so why do you dismiss this without even giving it any credence? Please don't "play dumb" on this.

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  5. David C On planet earth Registered Senior Member

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    445
    Did you once say this?

    "There are lots of mistakes made by hoax-believers but I've never seen one that, when corrected, proved the missions were real."

    Are hb mistakes, not lies by your standards? So, we corrected the mistake by the pro-Apollo supporter and does it prove the hoax? Hmmm, that would be a no wouldn't it. Enough about his mistake, anymore reference to it and I shall start digging up more of yours, and there are some really wonderful ones(in addition to the contradictions in post 34 you "played dumb" on)
     
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  7. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    7,829
    No, I believe he made a mistake.
    All mistakes aren't deliberate lies.

    BUT

    As my corrected version is in fact true:

    We can see the place where we landed on the moon with telescopes IN ORBIT AROUND THE MOON, confirmed by other countries. How do you explain that away?????

    Sure they can be, but there is no plausible reason for the Japanese scientists or today's LRCO scientists to fake these pictures to cover up this supposed conspiracy from mid last century.
     
  8. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    There are so many realistic artifacts associated with the moon landings that it would be almost as much trouble to fake it as it would be to have gone there in person. What would be the point? Just the fact that the rockets took off is difficult enough, and there's nothing between here and the moon, so why not just keep going?
     
  9. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    930
    You're playing the same games you played over at JREF. I'm in a bit of a hurry now so people can see my responses to those same issues between this page...
    http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=216531&page=198

    ...and page 206 of that thread.
     
  10. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    I bet you didn't know that the Moon itself is fake. Yup, it's a hologram.
     
  11. David C On planet earth Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    445
    Ahhh, he's "playing dumb" again. You'd get laughed out of the debating hall for that

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    You haven't answered those points at all, you ran away after offering nonsensical answers. You are being asked this HERE, not at JREF.

    Again, why doesn't Jarrah's flag move, when it is much more likely to move being square on to him, rather than 45 degrees AWAY from him like the Apollo 15 flag. He is also running straight at it and swerves at the last minute. It doesn't move until he is practically level with it. Can you explain this, the viewers are waiting?

    There are some things that even the best (or worst

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    )sophists can't obfuscate, this is one of them. Another simple one is the fact that you cannot offer an explanation for why wave blowers are used, or an example, or any corroborative citations(Chinese spacewalk).

    And a further one being how you keep making this claim of "the atmosphere explanation" yet you consistently fail/refuse to offer any physics that explains how a body in motion pushes air 4 to 6 feet in front of it.

    I believe I have witnessed this same pattern of behaviour when you ran away from debate on the politicalforum - offering the truly lame circular argument of the criminally dense "faked Chinese spacewalk" being a qualifying credibility test. So come on do you seriously expect anybody to believe your explanation for why the maker of that video is an Apollo believer? You claim he was "got at". Ha ha ha ha - that is patently absurd.

    I cannot fathom how you look at the zoomed in version of the "bubble" in the Chinese spacewalk and yet still maintain it is that - a bubble. It clearly isn't. It's like your statement "I can't see the flagpole move" when it so clearly does. You have 4 years of spamming to protect, so I guess you won't be suddenly developing logic, clarity, honesty?, or any other of the basics to help you understand why you are so wrong and so totally unable to admit it.
     
  12. Believe Happy medium Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,194
    Why is it that you absolutly refuse to answer anyone elses questions? I may have messed up one piece of information, but you still have not answered my question. What exactly would the US have to gain by faking the moon landing, besides embarresment when the truth came out? Also, of the THOUSANDS of people involved in project that would have had to know what was up, how come not even ONE has had a guilty conscience and come forward to say that they are fake????
     
  13. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    930
    The same people are asking the same questions that they asked over at JREF as if I hadn't addressed them. I'll post a direct link to one of my posts.
    http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=8181518&postcount=8217

    Any objective viewer can read all of my posts between pages 198 and 206 and see what I said about these issues. Your saying that I didn't address them there won't fool those viewers that actually take the time to look. You'll only sway a few of the ones who don't.

    People can look at the info and decide for themselves.
    http://www.politicalforum.com/moon-...20-1969-sir-questions-sir-12.html#post4767755

    When the cables go up, they always do it in a way that's consistent with buoyancy. If shape memory were the explanation, the cables would also move in other directions. They wouldn't only move upward.

    People can look at the footage of the alleged bubbles and decide for themselves.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=ES&hl=es&v=NVbBFwdmldA
    (1:55 time mark)

    The movement of the one that moves upward along the visor is consistent with a bubble and inconsistent with the movement of debris. It hugs the visor as it goes upward. A piece of debris wouldn't do that.

    You people can try to obfuscate these anomalies all you want. There is a point at which things are so clear that sophistry becomes ineffective and these anomalies are that clear.
     
  14. David C On planet earth Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    445
    Wowie, you really are cornered aren't you. You have posted this issue here, now kindly address my questions here. They would laugh you out of the debating hall with that lame response.

    1/ Again, why doesn't Jarrah's flag move, when it is much more likely to move being square on to him, rather than 45 degrees AWAY from him like the Apollo 15 flag. He is also running straight at it and swerves at the last minute. It doesn't move until he is practically level with it. Can you explain this? The viewers are waiting.

    2/ You cannot offer an explanation for why wave blowers are used, or an example, or any corroborative citations(Chinese spacewalk).

    3/ And a further one being how you keep making this claim of "the atmosphere explanation" yet you consistently fail/refuse to offer any physics that explains how a body in motion pushes air 4 to 6 feet in front of it.

    4/ The person who created the China faked it video, says we landed on the Moon, now that turns your "credibility test" into bovine excrement.

    The viewers can see you twisting, turning and obfuscating, it really is very laughable. You are like the Monty Python Black Knight, you don't know when you are beaten. Reminds me of a quote from the opposingdigits page

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    Objective viewers disagree with you. Why should they have to go elsewhere to see you evade these same issues:shrug:

    They move in numerous directions, selective blindness on your part once again. But even so, the retaining clips holds the cables in one plane, so any tendency they would have to move would be along that same plane. Your blanket refusal to even accept this as a simple explanation is symptomatic of your blinkered beliefs.

    Yes the viewers can see this weird shaped object revolving about its axis and nobody except you will "see" a bubble. Do you even believe your own arguments? Do you know what static electricity is? Do you know how stronger it is without an atmosphere and in a vacuum? Obviously not!

    Viewers - Go to youtube search on both these keywords "cosmored" "bubble". If anybody watching those thinks it is a bubble, kindly post here.

    Huh? You really are stuck here, now answer the questions and stop with the tapdancing. The viewers can see that your obfuscation is not working.
     
  15. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,152
    All the videos could have been faked. Anything could be faked.
    But not just anybody can fake a moon landing THEN release a faulty video. Don't you have any clue how serious the space race was, and how, as a matter of national security, the US needed the Reds to think we never got there? Use your head, mon, it's counter-counter-countermeasures.

    I want to see data. Just how much atmosphere is on the moon and just how much is required to get that effect. Where does their exhalate go? Any vents on the left side of the suit? How much static charge on the suit or on the flag? What's the g-force between him and the flag? C'mon let's chase this baby down. It can't be that hard.
    Where's the faked blueprints for the flag. We need that. That will blow this whole site viral.

    Hell, if he'd bumped into it as fast as he was moving it would have reached escape velocity. So, I say again, let's identify ALL the forces acting on that flag! Stack 'me up, rule 'em out, prove they faked the video, and that's how you get traction. Traction? Don't forget any dust he kicked up. I want to see that flag tip position plotted - I bet it's a pure second order response from a servo. Servo? Any on-flag control system to keep it pointing at the official direction? (Stars lead stripes into battle.) There's just not enough brainstorming been done on this to chase it down. Has there been a fishbone analysis?

    What makes you think there's no gravity? What makes you think gravity is the only force acting on those materials? Where are the blueprints for the jackets? Are they designed to spring one way or the other? Is this only observed in Apollo or did we fake the video in the shuttle program too? Seriously: What makes you think this wasn't done simply to throw the Ruskies off - they're the only people who had adequate equipment back in the day to detect deliberately laid clues like these.

    Take notes, because if you ever get confused which one is the real you, it means they've defeated some of your hologram countermeasures. You think I'm joking. This is bigger than you think. Just wait til we get to the blueprints and the physics. Someone seriously needs to file for the missing Apollo blueprints. This stuff needs to go to court.
     
  16. leopold Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,455
    there are a few very important things to remember about all of this.
    first, there were thousands of people working on this project scattered over thousands of miles that knew for a fact whether the saturn 5 was capable of reaching, and landing a man on, the moon.
    to my knowledge NONE of them even managed a whisper about such a hoax.

    second, there is such a thing called russia.
    these are the people that took the first photos of the backside of the moon and at the time our arch enemy.
    they would love nothing more than to provide solid proof that the saturn 5 was incapable.
    since they have expertise in getting to the moon they would know if our rockets were capable or not.
    so far any such evidence has not been forthcoming

    given the above facts it's easy to see that we did indeed have the capability.
    since we had the capability i fail to see why we wouldn't use it.

    if you want to prove we didn't go then prove the saturn 5 incapable.
     
  17. Believe Happy medium Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,194
    At this point we just need to stop feeding the troll, I have already brought these things up and the persons argument against them was to simply restate the exact same information as before without addressing the issue in any way.
     
  18. David C On planet earth Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    445
    When you see the duplicate come backs from this guy you can guess exactly what his reply to this is. He will say it could have been space radiation, and how do we know they are telling us the truth. Perhaps if he comes back and when he does indeed fire that back with his totally lame links, he could explain why objects routinely performing orbits through the VAB are not "fried" and how objects such as SMART-1/LROC/Kaguya and suchlike manage to work just fine. Indeed, the Soviets managed to soft land a few times on the Moon and actually returned a few with soil samples, so perhaps he could explain that one as well. Fat chance, since he ignores difficult stuff and runs away.
     
  19. leopold Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,455
    due to the numerous probes that were sent aloft before hand it would be well known whether man could withstand it.
    i fail to see the project moving ahead if he couldn't.
    the astronauts themselves were intimately involved with both the design and construction of the saturn 5, they also had access to the research, including the radiation research.
    i seriously doubt the astronauts would put their own lives in jeopardy.
    a number of flights were scrubbed due directly to such concerns from the astronauts.
    you simply can not silence thousands of people scattered over thousands of miles, you just can't do it.

    i guess now he will raise the "atom bomb secret".
    this is an entirely different animal.
    the scientists that worked on, and constructed, "the gadget" was contained in one area, in essence their own city complete with their own area code and phone system.
    nothing entered or left that town without being censored, even the mail was scrutinized.

    of all of the stuff i have read concerning this NONE of it addresses the capability issue.
     
  20. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,296
    Just a couple of things in general here, folks.

    I suggested several days ago that we just ignore this troll and let him leave due to being starved for attention.

    Plus, anytime you see someone start a thread on a topic like this, you can be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN of one of three things (or even all three):

    1. His elevator doesn't go all the way to the top;

    2. He's SO poorly educated that he does not know even the most basic things about science or;

    3. He IS nothing but a troll and just wants to stir up controversy and has NO interest in honest debate NOR has any interest in the actual truth of the subject.

    So, in the final analysis, it's not worth spending even a moment of your time responding to him. He's a total looser. (Note - I came into the thread just now because I've read all the other new posts and had nothing else to do for a minute or two. Otherwise, I would have never bothered to even look at it again.) :shrug:
     
  21. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    930
    You pro-Apollo posters are really just wasting your time as there are anomalies that are simply too clear to obfuscate.

    Anyone can hang a light piece of cloth from a ceiling light and trot by it at a forty five degree angle and exactly duplicate the movement of the flag in this clip.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymwE1sNm82Y


    Anyone can hang a light jacket on a coat hanger and bounce it up and down and exactly duplicate the movement of Collins' jacket corner in this clip.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fqdB1b53jc
    (00:52 time mark)

    It looks the same as the movement of this guy's jacket corners in gravity.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTNGNW5Evs4

    The movement of Collins' jacket corner is very different from that of the straps in this clip which is in zero-G...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ofwzby1c7o
    (3:17 time mark)

    ...and the jacket corners in this clip.
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TejsnPThmd4


    More on the flag...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7yc2rVOs00
    http://www.youtube.com/results?sear....9485.0.10500.24.12.0.0.0.5.125.482.10j1.12.0.
    http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...9359.0.31219.42.37.2.0.0.2.110.2377.32j2.34.0.

    As I've said before, there's a point at which things are so clear that sophistry becomes ineffective. The best sophist in the world couldn't convince a ten-year-old that a picture of an elephant is really a picture of a zebra. Those Apollo anomalies are about that clear. I'd say your success rate here is close to zero.
     
  22. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    These are all supremely stupid arguments. There is no wind on the moon, but there is still gravity, momentum, and movement.
     
  23. Believe Happy medium Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,194
    Broken record, just keeps repeating itself.

    Maybe if you answered some of the questions that people have asked you it would be different. I'm guessing that would require too much thinking and you know that you can't do too much of that and keep your crazy point of view.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012

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