Will Bush bomb Iran?

Discussion in 'World Events' started by madanthonywayne, Sep 3, 2007.

  1. Outback Registered Member

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    Yes. My chains are gold, though, and yours are iron. Iron is a much stronger material, 'tis true, but then gold is so much softer and more comfortable.
     
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  3. Echo3Romeo One man wolfpack Registered Senior Member

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    It seems as though I've been misreading you, and assuming that you were suggesting that we should be flattening entire towns to get a few insurgents that are hiding in them, like the talk radio yobs* here often do. In light of the rest of this post, I went back and re-read what you were saying and agree with much of it. There is no shortage of historical examples of nations with arbitrarily drawn borders irrespective of cultural fault lines being unable to stabilize under anything but the most draconian internal security. Iraq itself has seen this before while under the post-WWI British mandate.

    As it stands now, and just as a general FYI, the focus of the COIN campaign in Iraq is to enfranchise the people to the point where political reconciliation can happen at a municipal and national level. The hope is that if the patchwork of Iraqis can work out their grievances through the political process rather than through street violence, a system can be hammered out that is tenable to the wide majority of Iraqis. While the idea has been floated here and there of dividing Iraq along its cultural fault lines, there is no way to do while avoiding sectarian exclusion from the oil, phosphorous, and fresh water sources. Also, Iraqis are quite nationalist, and overwhelmingly reject the idea of a partitioned Iraq.

    The US Army COIN manual I refer to was finalized late last year after composition by some of the best and brightest historians of the Army/Marine Corps officer corps (Gen. Petraeus, Gen. Mattis, Col. McMaster, et al.) It is based on our experiences in Vietnam...as well as the British in Northern Ireland, the French in Algiers and Vietnam, even the Nazis in Croatia, etc. It was written in response to the unpreparedness of our military to wage a proper COIN campaign upon the completion of the invasion in 2003, and also incorporates much of what we've learned in Iraq since then. In any case, don't be quick to summarily dismiss it without giving it a read, because it is widely acknowledged by experts - military and civilian alike - as a paradigm-shattering revolution in traditional military strategy. The PDF is available for download here.

    If you know of a better metric to gauge the efficacy of a fighting force than its ability to obliterate opposing forces and take/hold terrain, please share.

    Also, if you're going to seriously try to argue the history of Arab militaries against those of the west as anything but spectacular failures, I'm putting down my beer before I blow it all over my monitor with laughter.
     
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  5. Outback Registered Member

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    Downloading...

    or perhaps not. I'm at work right now, and the privilege of working a nightshift and being able to surf whilst theoretically doing something of importance might be lost should someone bother to check my activities.
    It will have to wait until a later time, but I will read it.
     
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  7. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    There is no better than that, but that right there is an ability the US military does not have.

    Against the West? I'm not talking about the West, I'm talking about America in specific

    And in case you don't know, Arab militaries in the past, such as the Golden Age of Islam, DID have much success against the "West" (Europe)

    And as if Iraq wasn't a spectacular failure...

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  8. Outback Registered Member

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    Not precisely.
    I am rather tired of hearing that the Americans are incapable of winning such a conflict with forces such as those arrayed against them in Iraq, though, and sometimes resort to the extreme out of pure annoyance.

    It is extremely frustrating to realise that these think that the force displayed in Iraq, hobnailed as it was by logistics, politics, and social concerns (perhaps even a desire to conceal the full extent of American capability), was all that the US is capable of unleashing - should it choose to do so.

    I have been privately censured by a moderator recently for calling those such as this one above a twit, so I shall not do so again. I shall, instead, merely think it, as opposed to writing it out here for public viewing.

    Now don't those two things add up to something curious?
     
  9. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Why are you tired of it? You aren't even American, nor should you be siding with the Americans that want nothing but total influence over whatever nation you come from.

    Are you happy as a slave? Is your master feeding you enough lies?

    Also, I would say likewise. The US army could unleash more, but it can't because of society. The Iraqis could unleash more, but they can't because of society

    Do you think they've fought their hardest? Nah, if it completely, all came down to it, America would be flattened in no time. And no one will help them.
     
  10. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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  11. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    11,529
     
  12. Outback Registered Member

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    Syria? Oh yes... that relatively large country with the relatively large military which had the crap kicked out of it by Israel some time ago. You know, that little flyspeck of a nation you don't like very much and tried to wipe off the face of the map, you peace loving nation you.

    Feel free to reminisce fondly on "golden ages" centuries gone, t....

    Am I permitted to call him an unwashed toad, then, Mr Moderator? Or must I limit myself to merely thinking that as well?
     
  13. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Quite, under the Umayyads Syria was alot larger than your nation could dream of.

    Crap kicked out? Hardly.......defeat? Yes.

    Pfft, alot more peaceloving than the Americans, thanks alot!

    Centuries gone, but teach a valuable lesson. Power shifts, 6 centuries from now, do you think the USA will even exist?
     
  14. Outback Registered Member

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    Amusing, isn't it. Couldn't even manage to attack Israel successfully, right next door as it was, and then he raves about conquering America in a year.

    Is that a little bit of drool there I see there, Mr Syria, at the thought of America's demise?
    What does your little user title say? Syria will Prevail? Over what?
    I thought you were all about peace... and yet here you are advertising your long term victory.

    What a facade you are.
     
  15. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Attack and win are different words. Oh, and of course "we" can conquer America. We, as in the entire free world, including your nation if you choose to go against your master.

    You can see over the internet? Amazing, but you saw wrong.

    Syria will prevail over anything that is thrown against her.

    Here you are, supporting the USA, yet supporting Peace at the same time. If you are about peace, how can you possibly support the USA

    What a facade you are.
     
  16. Echo3Romeo One man wolfpack Registered Senior Member

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    I'd be curious to see you try to logically support this assertion.
     
  17. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Support your claim (if you are implying one) that they can
     
  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    But this is an occupation - occupations are very often made successful by being nice to people - as the US has, in the now distant past, demonstrated.
    The war was won in a few weeks, without serious difficulty - remember "Mission Accomplished" ?
    Which is why deliberate lying is the standard, reasonable presumption. Because none of that stuff showed WMDs as described by W&Co.
    Destroyed by the UN inspection program. The claims by W&Co were of current, ongoing production of massive quantities of specified kinds of WMDs in 2002. For that, no one had any evidence.
    Anything the UN knew about was destroyed before 2001. We are talking about the fall of the year 2002, when W&Co started the preliminary bombing (while claiming to the US citizenry that no decision had been made).

    Now we ask whether W will bomb Iran. And the obvious answer is - of course, if he can muster the domestic backing. He does need some minimal popular and political support, though. So we anticipate an anti-Iranian propaganda effort, similar to the one curtailed in spring of this year, when developments in Iraq shorted it.
     
  19. chuuush Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, Arabs war with Israel was a total shame. Of course Israel enjoyed the total backing of the biggest powers of the time and their latest technologies along with a powerful espionage system which had already disintegrated the Arabic armies as well as the Nuke tech. it had got from France, but all these should not constitute a pretext to lose your land to your enemy and not be able to get it back after more than 30 years. I think Syria has to prove it if it has the capacity and not just brag like Saddam did. Actions speaks louder than words and peace can be achieved only when you are ready to war...

    By the way Norsefire, one friend who had visited Siyra told me that your president goes out freely in the streets and to the restaurants and shopping etc. with his family without much security just to keep in touch with his own people and that people really like him. I wondered whether it was correct news?
     
  20. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    It's very safe, and people do like him, but I have yet in the time I've been there to see him anywhere. I've only been to Latakia and Damascus, however, so maybe that has something to do with it.

    Outback for some reason supports the USA, but the odd thing is, he's not even American! He's the classic US slave, lol
     
  21. chuuush Registered Senior Member

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    What do you mean by all these groupings of words? When something is not there it reasonably means it doesn't exist. Wake up it is 2007 not 2002.

    I have always though that philosophical thinking equals illogical thinking. Here comes another proof. :bugeye:

    The majority of westerners are not daring to do any action to stop the bullying U.S. simply because they cannot see the danger in doing nothing...
    How do you support your thesis of potential danger? By showing fake documents in the U.N security council!?!

    I think this is what they call democracy. If public opinion was not to check the military and the politics, it would be just like Deutschland under the Führer.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2007
  22. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    I am amazed at how Outback strongly supports the USA. He must be the only European (if indeed he is) that does. It's ridiculous

    And like I've said before, the USA has zero ability to conquer.
     
  23. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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