Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

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Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

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    Lets see how the Federation ground troops take care of all ARC troopers ( Null and Alpha )and All RC ( republic commandoes ). Even the whole federation ground forces can't take All the commadoes and ARCs. If you are thinking about Starships providing cover fire, thats not gonna happen there will be 10 VSD ( Ventor Star Destroyers ) 1,000 LAAT/i Gunships, and 10 Republic walkers covering the Commandoes and ARCs, so aircover won't happen only ground fighting will happen. if you have not seen the effectivness of ARC trooper, RC ( republic commandoes ), Ventor Star Destoryers, Republic walkers or LAAT/i gunships i suggest you do.
     
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  3. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

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    If you are thinking " Lets exterminate the Republic's and CIS' army! " thats not gonna happen forever for the Federation's populsion speed. Do you know where Kamino is " Beyond the Rishi Maze " Dexter, and Geonosis is at the Outer Rim territories. They have high building speed, it would take the Federation about 3 decades to get to either of thouse places. By the time they get there, they would have a new, stronger, experienced, " battle hardened " Clone or CIS army, for the Federation to take out the Grand army of the Republic, it's never gonna happen.
     
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  5. Saquist Banned Banned

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    3,256

    That balanced with what I quoted doesn't conflict but it does mimimize his involvement. As the creator of the series he does have some involvement but it does not set him as the decision maker in the EU but supervisory role.

    So seeing as the plot was outlined by a different person I'd say that means he created some plot lines but not the grand scheme.

    Consider it reread: You know what it says...This is for everyone else.
    Verbatim: How much of a role did Georg Lucas play in shaping the series?

    Lucy Wilson:
    Georg Lucas has been invovled in all of the spin-off Star Wars publishing. but only on big concepts or plot points. The initial five-year NJO plot outline and early thoughts on who might die were sent to him in the form of a Q & A memo and subsequently discussed by phone.

    Shelly Shapiro:
    I would characerize his role as limited but important. He's the one who said the alien invaders could not be dark side Force-users, that we couldn't kill Luke, that we had to kill Anakin instead of Jacen (we had originally planned it the other way around). Other than tat he occasionally answer some basic question for us but that was rare. Mostly he leaves the books to his licensing people, trusting them to get it right.

    So they had the creative licence here. For all those that wish to see this for themselves...This is page 537 of The Star Wars Book The Unifying Force.
     
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  7. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

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    1,265
    Yes but guess what, the Borg can almost literally go where ever they want. Via the transwarp network. Create one in the SW galaxy and you can move faster than hyperspace. And you don't need to construct end apertures.

    Just go to the designated place and construct a two-way mechanism.
     
  8. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

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    1,493
    O, i forgot about that sorry. Okay you win it is non-canon. But clone wars is still canon, it is not EU.
     
  9. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

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    I'm skeptical, but I'm not going to argue.
     
  10. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

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    1,099
    And my source is George Fucking Lucas.

    I win.

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  11. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,493
    Tell me how fast is transwarp network.
    Qoute Admirl Piett, another officer of Excercutor and Vader:
    " Sir, the Millieum Falcon just jumped to hyperspace. "
    " it's impossible! We broke the Hyperdrive generators, they might be half way across the galaxy by now!"
    " Don't fail me again Admiril Piett. "
    You see that they can go half way across the galaxy in 3 hours to 6 hours depending on the Hyperdrive rating ( the lower the number the faster ). Piett said that they might be half way across the galaxy by now is not quite true, but what be really means that by the time Exceruter jumped to hyperspace the Falcon is gonna be half a galaxy away. by my calculations, they can go across the galaxy in half a day to 1 day. Here is another demostation of it's speed:
    " Kamino? Is it in the Republic? "
    " No, it's beyond the Rishi Maze "
    -Dexter and Obi-Wan

    Rishi Maze is a satilite galaxy of the Republic's galaxy
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rishi_Maze
    And Kamino is beyond the Rishi Maze, so Obi-Wan have to get the distance of 1.5x the diameter of the Republic's galaxy. Obi-Wan arrive at Kamino about the same time as Anakin and Padme arrive at naboo, the time used to go to coruscant to naboo is half a day, but they are tavelling as refugees so about 1 day maxium. so he went 1.5x the distance of the galaxy in a day, pretty impressive huh?
    here is some info on hyperspace
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperdrive
    keep in mind that you can't assimulate the CIS army cause they are droids, and they can destroy the network.

    Remember if the federation can use the Borg as an allie, then CIS, Republic, and the Imperial forces and form an alliance too.
     
  12. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,493
    Okay you win, but you didn't win about Clone Wars or anything being in the Era of the Chosen One ( the time between Anakin's Birth to Anakin's Death )
     
  13. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    Well, actually we get information of ground troops (as well as MACROs) in DS9 (and somewhat in Enterprise). The reason why the UFP security officers aren't as nearly competent as they should be is on the very idea that they are not soldiers...they are security officers with minor military training. Think about it, just how often would you expect a starship that explores nebulas and planets to be boarded or need to retain a prisoner. Now compare it to the Redshirts in TOS. Those men tended to be more like brawlers, and we even saw that they could fight pretty well with swords. Despite the fact that they often died (through painful, humiliating, and horrifying methods), the ones who didn't die quickly became more competent (the none inverse reason is because suspense had already been built by the character's death). In any case, the MACROs are competent in combat, as seen in Enterprise, mostly because they're actually trained soldiers.

    Now, in DS9, we're told that there is personal shielding (we don't see it used), and that the Federation does have ground based assaults. In one episode, we even see this, where the UFP officers have to be careful when walking around, since there are cloaked bombs floating mines that will go off if you get too close, not to mention holographic decoys. We also have evidence of them employing jamming tactics, and using phaser rifles. Now, air support wise, they have fighters, bombers, and even shuttles. Assuming that they all have the same power as the Voyager shuttle in one of the time traveling episodes, then each one of those could easily vaporize a bloody truck. The UFP also has photon grenades, which produce pretty big explosions, as well as the Klingons have automatic guns that shoot bullets that explode upon impact.

    The Empire on the other hand, does have a more dedicated ground force, with AT-ATs, and Walkers, but these can easily be taken down by fighters or shuttles, and Level 14+ phaser shots on the legs would quickly neutralize the enemy. Furthermore, UFP weapons have auto-targeting capabilities, meaning that even in the case of fog, heavy rain, or even snow, their weapons are likely to be more accurate (and we have evidence of UFP officers being more accurate shots on top of that).
     
  14. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,265
    I think it only took 10-20 minutes for voyager to cross about 2/3 of the galaxy into the alpha quaderant.

    SW forces never ally. It is just a simple fact, no two warring SW governments have ever allied.

    You could not destroy the network entirely, you would first have to somehow disable the sheilds on indivudual hubs. (Voyager did it with a unique pathgen that infected the borg. SW isn't smart enough to do something like that)
     
  15. Saquist Banned Banned

    Messages:
    3,256
    I believe clone Wars is canon.
    Not because of any relation or disrelation to lucas but because it's on screen.
     
  16. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

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    1,099
    Yes I do.

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    And really, this is just getting silly. The best thing to do with the book series, is to just treat it like ST treats the TM: it's speculation. It MAY have happened, but this is just speculation. Just think of it that way. Think of it as going to a universe very close to GL's, but instead of being a carbon copy, it has some things that could give you an idea of just what may have happened in the gaps during the movies. But it would be speculation, because you wouldn't know of that actually happend in GL's world. Now, things like weapons calcs and such...they aren't worth a lick. Clone Wars? The uber-jedi thing is out, but perhaps those events did happen, just not in the manner you see on screen.

    This is the attitude that Lucas takes to EU, and it's a good one. It lets the fans play in a similar world, and even from time to time, Lucas will make part of their works canon, by having a parallel character of them in his world.

    It's a great gift, and I think that by not accepting it, you are doing Lucas a disfavor.
     
  17. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    Actually, it would be in its own class, just below G-canon, but above C-Canon, which is T-Class. I generally take it as speculation, as in it may have happened, but surely not in the manner it was shown (some Jedi capabilities are way too high for their usual level).

    But it would have more power to it than ICS does.
     
  18. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,493
    The troops i listed are not republic, and they have awesome aim. What are you talking about having bad aim, what part does REPUBLIC commandoes sound imperial to you? If they think their aim is bad you never seen a ARC or RC did you? You never seen LAAT/i gunships except from Attack of the Clones have you? Do you know what is a Republic walker, do republic walkers look like AT-ATs to you? here is a slusion check the website.
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
    auto aim is nothing compared to the Comandoe's and ARC's built-in helmet sensors. In addition to their sensors they have a mammtoh load of equitment ( a figer of speech ), so holographic decoys, cloak bombs and floating mines won't be a problem, they have seen more heavily guarded place then that. What part of Ray Shields don't you get? they are shields thats can cover a group of four and they are alot better then personal deflecter shields. Do you know what is a Blaster Chaingun, Sniper, and heacy ordance are? they cut break through a shield easily. Bullets, have you seen a Star Wars movie? There is never a broken clone trooper armor, even from the troopers that fell of a tree hundreds of meter high, they can block bullets and they can dodge them unlike federation personnel ( Federation troops are stiffer then C-3PO in combat ) For aircover, ARCs are RCs have them too, 10 Star Destoryers, 100 v-wings, plenty of LAAT/i and high-altitude gunships, Star Destoryers can fight in air too, i doubt the Federation can get past them. You think you can hit them? not a chance, the can dodge can shoot so fast that the Federation troops won't know they are shot until they are dead, Ray-Shields plus areobics can get past phasers easily. Lastly they have Snipers and Jedi cover.
     
  19. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    Um, that was hyperbole, the guy is clearly exagerating, simply for the point of the fact that they are likely to not be able to find the MF.


    No one is denying that Imperial hyperdrive is fast, but Borg transwarp hubs are much faster, although their transwarp drive is slower. Basicly, the transwarp network is very advanced and well kept, which allows them to travel all over the area pretty quickly. The downpart is that you can only enter and exit at certain points, but with the transwarp drives, this wouldn't be a too big of a problem.

    And actually, the UFP should be working on their own transwarp drive now that they have the transwarp coil and several other technologies.

    ...Um, the CIS and the Republic existed before the Empire. The Empire can have the Rebels, but you can't have people from two different time frames in one. That would cause a lot of temporal shit. And if we did it that way, ST would get the 31st century UFP, which is on par with the Daleks and the Time Lords.

    Although, Borg ground battles vs CIS droids would be awsome. It would basicly consist of a firefight where the CIS droids downed about fifty to a hundred drones, and then the drones adapting and beating the ever loving shit out of the CIS.

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  20. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

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    Okay, you keep doing this. This debate is about the GALATIC EMPIRE vs STAR TREK (or for the most part, the Romulans, Klingons, UFP, and perhaps even the Dominion).

    If you want a Republic thread, I would be glad to debate this with you, since they do show competency on the field of battle. However, here it's just as confusing as hell, as it appears like you keep getting yourself mixed up. So please, stick to the IMPERIAL forces, and not the REPUBLIC.

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  21. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

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    Why can't they? Anakin Skywalker can just build something that can hack the network computers. O, ya then why can't voyager made it back from Alpha Qudrant in 7 years? If SW forces never allie, what happend to the name " Reble Alliance "? and how about CONFEDERACY of independent systems? If ST people are so smart why can't they built a champion pod-racer with limited time, and wiht junk? SW people are smarter, and Anakin ans Luke Skywalker are the smartest ( Anakin on the Jedi concil at the age of 20 ). Borgs can't assimulate droids, they can use 1000 droidikas.
     
  22. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

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    I hate the Empire i like the Republic ( except shawdow troopers and Vader ). Here is my answer.
     
  23. antaran_1979 Registered Senior Member

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    it's weird, but it's on screen. so it fores us to make some strange rationalisations like something terrible has happened to the jedi amd sith, or maybe to the force. maybe a virus diminished their abilities. maybe to force told them they if they don't show some restraint it will sevare their conection with them, who knows?
     
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