Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

?

Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    wow you really need to get a life.

    "suck my wookie balls", wow. That is a crappy insult.
     
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  3. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    George, the designs for the game were created by paramount. Since paramount made trek, it is canon. And there is not contradiction to say it isnt.

    Of course, than cryptic bought the rights, and spent most of their time converting everything to a better engine, but in essence since paramount made it. It's canon.

    How old I am doesnt matter. And whether or not I have a degree doesnt really prove wether or not I know astrophysics.

    I even know a decent chunk of quantum physics.

    Im mature enough to not say
    That takes some serious immaturity and social insecurity to jump on a person like that.

    Its nearly 50 years after the last episode of star trek, and yes its canon, and the fact is that they are now advanced enough to do it.

    And what would you know to say they couldnt?
     
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  5. George1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    929
    doesn't matter who made it,it's a game.


    i don't care about you'll knowledge as long as i don't even know how old you are


    you are just avoiding it.


    they wouldn't be advance enough in a hundred.maybe a thousand,but not 50.
    first of all,it's "couldn't"
    second,they wouldn't have enough time.50 years of advancement is
    not that relevant.
    and third, you are talking about THE DAM GAME!
    I KNOW.
    how long it toke you to get that?
     
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  7. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    But it's canon. End of story.

    I could throw out 90% of the books written on star wars including the ones made for statistics because they arent canon because Lucas wasnt the writer.

    The game is canon end of story.
    Whats the difference between a game and TV? A game you can be the hero, in a TV show you watch the hero...
     
  8. George1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    929
    books are something else;they are made to explain things saw in the movies.
    they are cannon because Lucas gave his approval for them.Otherwise, they
    wouldn't have been copyright,or even published.
    the same thing goes for Star Trek,except the entity which must gave an
    approval is Paramount,cuz Roddenberry is death.

    there is one difference,which is why i don't like games taken as cannon:
    in a game,YOU can influence things.can you do that in STO?
    if yes,then it is not cannon.
    however if the game follows a plot that can not be changed,then it can be
    taken as cannon.

    i personally don't take any game as cannon.at least,not complex games like
    STO and Star Wars:Galaxys. in fact,SWG is not cannon.

    right now i am getting tired of this debate,so i'l just say what SW has,how
    it works and i will stop mocking star trek.
    and i actually kinda enjoy ST (when they aren't talking about science).
    but i don't like the original,nor the first movies based on it.
    my favorite ST is ST:Enterprise.much more exiting.
    in ST:ENT i like that they are just beginning to explore, and they tend
    not to speak to much about science.

    now be honest,you do have something at star wars that you enjoy!
    what is it?

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  9. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    The one thing I always disliked about star wars is they never had an episode between attack of the clones and revenge of the sith.

    I guess it would make sense that if you order them in significance revenge of the sith would be made first.

    But a movie about the clone wars would have been pretty epic.

    Same thing goes for the last 3, we dont see any of the dozens of battles and we really only hear of Luke's point of view. While nice. I think that having episodes for these battles would have been ineffective.

    But Ive always had it out for the sheer incompetance of some of the imperial commanders.

    And when you think of the design of the death star, imagine how many engineers, architects, and builders slaved over the thing, it seems kinda wierd nobody questioned why they had a hole leading to the center...

    Or why none of the commanders whom were commanding the second one or even the guys whom built it never thought "something about this seems vaguely familiar"

    Although lightsaber duels are epic...
     
  10. George1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    929
    well,there is an animated movie about the clone wars,as well as the ongoing
    series.
    the hole you speak about was a necessity in order to get rid of excess heat
    made by the reactor. in fact,the only way anyone could know about it was
    to steal the plans of the DS.
    the second DS2 eliminated this with thousand of millimeter size ports.
    the large hole Rebel ships entered was an incomplete part of it.
    the incompetent imperial commanders were immediately killed when making a
    mistake,which thanks to fear was quite rare.
    those things you see in the movie are they'll worst...and last mistake
    and yes,lightsabers are epic.
     
  11. Apocalypse2001 System Lord Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    693
    1) first of all, real science was used to make even the most theoretical ideas in Star Trek possible (they actually had advisors on virtually every episode)

    2) One of the advantages is having a very advanced computer on board that helps them with calculations. And you obviously don't have your facts straight about ANYTHING. The ship was not fully manned. It had a skeleton crew to man the main systems. A computer could not do all that by itself. Because a computer cannot make intuitive leaps like those scientists did.

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    3) yes a scientists WOULD risks lives. Even his own. Scientists are not bound by the Hypocratic Oath.
    second it doesn't evaporate them. They only disintegrates (look up the word before you start spewing bullshit) them on a molecular level. Evene though it's not the best example, it would be like focussing a laser beam at a stack of upright papers. The paper wouldn't get charged and kill everybody....!!!
    If that happens to a human body by a phaser or disruptor, the cells would not have enough time to keep a charge and "float around" as you say. The molecules would be dispersed. Plasma is passed to a phaser emitter resulting in a discharge of nadion particles. Residual particles can be found in places where a battle has recently taken place. The disruptive effects of nadion discharges are moderated to produce varying effects, ranging from benign to extremely destructive. :deal:
    The only way, what you say, that would happen, is if the beam was very radioactive (which wouldn't be wise for the user to have! and would mean that the power souce is highly unstable!).

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    4) you can't conclude anything since all your explanations are nonsensical. The weapons you mentioned are pointless. Because by the time the Federation, at least, was established, projectile weapons were all but gone.
     
  12. George1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    929
    a scientist would NEVER risk his life or the life of others on a non-tested idea.
    so what if projectile weapons were gone? they would still be useful,no matter
    what you think.
    and what you are describing about the phaser has no sense; even if that happens,a cloud of vapor would still be inevitable,and visible.
    but i don't care anymore,cuz in star wars they have weapons capable of
    relishing megatons in a single shot.But in space,this energy dissipates quickly,
    and most are absorbed or radiated away by the shield.
    and particle weapons would need an unstable power source; where do you
    think a phaser the size of a handgun takes it's energy from?batteries?lol.
    but it dose not means it has to be radioactive.
    the leftover dose seams to be put to radioactive decay however,which means
    it has some sort of radioactivity or produces radioactivity around the area,otherwise it would be impossible to detect; they would simply dissipate.
    in what i have observed,phasers have a powerful melting ability,which implies
    heath. a unstable power source or a radioactive power source seams plausible,but ,of course,they probably don't ,which leads us with nothing.
     
  13. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    Yah, but thats not as cool as a legitimate movie.

    I find that hard to believe because for something emitting enough energy to destroy a planet one would think that a 2 meter wide hole might be complete insufficient to vent that much heat. Besides the fact that the hole does not have air, it is in a vacum, so in reality it would be a horrible way to get rid of heat because heat travels through conductive surfaces, like air, or liquid, etc, and while it can move through a vacum, its not that efficient.

    That would only make sense if the empire had no idea of an impending attack. They actually made it a trap for the rebellion. The fact is that when making a trap you spend days fortifying your position, and its hard to believe in the midst of all those days and months of planning and laying trails for rebel intelligence to follow, that nobody thought to put a two by four over the thing....

    To be 100% honest, no battle in star wars I have ever seen has taken any amount of skill on the place of the commanders. They just bang away at each other's capital ships until one side is the victor, and the other side is dead. There is no finesse, no skill, no tactics, just blow the living crap out of anything that moves....

    Even their most technically sophisticated plans could have been thought up by a luietenant junior grade in the US marine corps....
     
  14. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    George, your thinking conventionally here. The problem is you hit a wall where nothing makes sense.

    ie, the turbolasers on a star destroyer cant emit that much power because the recoil would send the ships into a barrel roll.

    Or blasters cant possibly work because heating plasma requires a massive heating element.

    Or the energy requirments for a turbolaser are impossibly large for any sized nuclear fusion reactor no matter how large

    The fact is, you can only go so far, and your debate technique is to prove a phaser cannot work and thus does not and trek has no weapons. Fact is that as a core part of the series, you just cant do that, period.

    Besides the fact Im pretty sure last i checked a phaser has a few dozen terajoules of energy for the rechargeable battery and releases a couple terajoules per shot...
     
  15. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Are you kidding? A Star Destroyer is a 1.6km long vessel made of ultradense materials. Also a Turbolaser fires a nearly massless particle. Recoil while present would be insignificant next to the mass of the vessel even without stabilizers and recoil compensators

    Suspension of disbelief. Blasters are souped up chemical lasers. Quite effective and powerful. If you are going to spout off about them not being possible, trying explaining the nadion particle and it's complete disregard for the Laws of Thermodynamics.

    For this argument we are assuming they both work. You wanna claim they don;t bring it up in a different convo.

    Well i would dispute this by saying a star is easily able to produce enough energy and it is a nuclear fusion reaction. So obviously your just wrong.

    On the other hand NOBODY said it was a Nuclear Fusion reaction. Just a fusion one. Which could be Molecular, Nuclear, Subatomic, Particle, Quark, Matter/Antimatter, and even Hypermatter as the defination of Fusion is Joining.

    Actually, your doing the same by claiming the above. Pot-Kettle-Black.

    Actually. They never say how many joules or watts are in a Hand Phaser. It does possess hundreds of shots, however. And power consumption does not always equal power output. There is no such thing as a hundred percent efficent technology.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2010
  16. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    TW, the above was actually an example, I never actually believed it.

    And yes, there is an episode I believe they say the power output. Ill look it up.
     
  17. Shogun Bleed White and Blue! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,635
    Yes please, that would be great

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  18. NECROSHADE 50 Registered Member

    Messages:
    21
    i like Stargate so i would pick that
     
  19. George1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    929
    to quote a few cannon materials
    "In plasma-based blasters, a high-energy gas (tibanna gas, for example, used in the BlasTech DC-series) would move from the gas chamber into another chamber where it was altered into a plasma state. It was then released from a magnetic "bottle" effect through the collimating components. This turned the mass of plasma gas and energy into a coherent energy beam as a coherent energy bolt of light and plasma. This combination of light and plasma formed the deadly bolt fired from a blaster."

    this is quite effective,cuz plasma can store a lot of energy.
    the gas is also stored under very high pressure.

    the turbolaser, to quote again,
    " a particle beam was generated in the manner standard of blasters and laser cannons. Then even more power was achieved by guiding this laser cannon particle-beam through another stream of energized blaster gas (besides the one used in generating the initial beam, since laser cannons work on the same principle as blasters) to increase its power. The extra capacitors in a turbolaser that store huge amounts of raw energy then contributed to the beam by energizing it even further as it moved to the turbolaser's barrel. The resulting beam carried roughly three or more times the energy of a standard laser cannon beam.
    It then passed through a set of galven coils located in the turbolaser's barrel, even further increasing the beam's power, and allowing it to pierce the defenses of heavily protected targets."

    this prove turbolaser are effective weapons.

    take a heavy turbolaser like a DBY-827 heavy dual turbolaser turret of a
    Venator-class Star Destroyer.Heavy turbolasers could release 6 megatons
    or more of energy at full capacity,and a venator class had 8 such turrets,
    with a fire rate of a few seconds each,and a range of ten light-minutes(179,875,474.8 kilometers or 111,769,438.23 miles)
    and they aren't a powerful example.
    an imperial- class star destroyer had far more power.
    all star destroyers could divert almost all of its reactor output to its heavy turbolasers.
    they could perform a BDZ all by themselves,reducing the surface of a planet
    to a molten slag of rock,burn its atmosphere and extinct all life on,above
    and below the surface.

    i did not tried to prove a phaser dosen't work,they obviously do, i tried to explain why such a small weapon would need a large powerful energy source
    to do what they do.
    moreover, a phaser rifle is more realistic,an cool, that a normal phaser.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2010
  20. George1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    929
    ...the numbers i toke for the turbolasrs were actualy for a smaller
    Acclamator I-class assault ship's defense laser canons.
    they also had and 12 quad turbolaser turrets, each rated at a maximum of 200 gigatons per shot,and could also perform a Base Delta Zero to exterminate all life on a planet.

    and the Invisible Hand from Revenge of the Sith made so much power ,produced so much power, even their point-defense ion cannons were each capable of delivering enough heat per shot to rival a 4.8 megaton bomb.
    want more?OK..
    The twin turbolaser cannon of a Munificent-class star frigate was powerful enough to melt an ice moon measuring 1,000 km in diameter.

    and they are small vessels that don't even deserve to be compared to an Executor-class Star Dreadnought;
    19 kilometers in length,over 5,000 weapons emplacements, including turbolasers, assault concussion missile launchers, and ion cannons.
    it's side was its only weakens,as it required a large number of fighters to protect it's ventral side and the aft who were relatively undefended.
    Its shields handled much of the power generated—an amount equivalent to the total power of a medium star (3.8 × 1026 W)
    the only reason the Executor was brought down at the Battle of Endor was because it's shield could not handle the concentrated firepower
    of the capital ship bombardment made by the Rebel fleet. Once the shield were down,the bridge was vulnerable,but it required a rebel pilot
    to make a kamikaze attack to destroy it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2010
  21. Apocalypse2001 System Lord Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    693
    first of all, you can't prove anything without doing the proper research. which I'm not sorry to say, you have never done. Powerful lasers can be made by channelling enegry through crystals, like diamonds for instance. The amount of energy expelled through a diamond (of about the size of your thumbnail, for instance, can cut through at least 3.7 feet of lead, with minimal effort.

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    If ANYTHING, light-sabers are the most unrealistic weapons. The type of energy needed to channel enough energy to create such a hot and VERTICAL, might I add, energy beam, would require a massive reactor. Not to MENTION the use of a massive capacitor to maintain the size of that beam, AND a containment field to prevent the beam from spewing out energy as if it was a fountain. :bugeye:
     
  22. George1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    929
    yes,i know.

    like phasers AREN'T.
    no,just a powerful energy source.They use a Diatium power cell , which
    contained extremely concentrated amounts of trumponium gas
    i did research about phasers when i wrote,but you DIDN'T about lightsabers.
    High levels of energy generated by a high-output Diatium power cell was unleashed through a series of focusing lenses and energizers that converted the energy into plasma. The plasma was projected through a set of focusing crystals that lent the blade its properties and allowed for the adjustment of blade length and power output.
    Once focused by the crystals, the plasma was sent through a series of field energizers and modulation circuitry within the emitter matrix that further focused it, making it into a coherent beam of energy that was projected from the emitter. The blade typically extended about a meter before being arced by the blade containment field back to a negatively charged fissure ringing the emitter, where it was channeled back to the power cell by a superconductor, completing the circuit.

    so you see,it DOSE have all the things you said it requires.

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  23. George1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    929
    Earth-Romulan War

    you know what i want from Star Trek?You have 3 guesses...yup,more seasons
    of star trek:enterprise focusing on the Earth-Romulan War.
    i would want that far more than a movie featuring young Kirk and Spock.
    think about it.2155-to 2160. five years worth of scenery,to make more details about
    the the races that founded the Federation,to show epic battles.

    i really want that. I WANT THAT.
    why did those puny losers canceled the show???
    ST:ENT is probably my favorite thing related to Star Trek.

    if any of those morons who canceled the show is watching this..F**K YOU!

    and to be honest..i didn't liked that much the new movie.
    it was quite cool...nice graphic and acting...but not epic.
     
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