Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

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Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

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    Open Circle and Death Squaron is a unit in the empire and republic navy
     
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  3. antaran_1979 Registered Senior Member

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    well not really. in ST allmost all systems have their own system defence ships, but these usualy operate independantly from Starfleet command. Star Fleet is the Deep Space military (dubed Exploratory)wing of the Federation. during peace times their ships usualy operate alone, but during war they form task forces and fleets. i am not sure, but starfleet's fleet division might be sector based.
     
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  5. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

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    Open Circle fleet is assigned to coruscant, and numerous other important worlds, and leave the unimprotant ones to other fleets, but if the CIS is planning a big attack Open Circle is gonna be involved, so it is a dependent, and invuluable fleet of the republic navy.as to death squadron it is a mighty armda commanded by Vader to hunt down the main reble fleet and the reble base
     
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  7. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

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    the republic is a country, federation is not
     
  8. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

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    the only exportation organization is outbound flight because they dont need a fleet they use beacons, telescopes and probes
     
  9. SkywalkerJedi アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) Registered Senior Member

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    1,493
    That only mean that the wall is durasteel thats painted yellow. IF you put a Star Trek wall there it would of burned a hole. the reason it is durasteel because there has been alot of blaster fights at the place. Star Wars have better walls

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  10. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

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    Highly unlikely, ST computers malfunction considerably less then you'd want them to. Trusting the Force to do everything for you is an accident waiting to happen.

    Non-Canon/Radical Speculation

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    It just means that the EU has permission to use the title, characters, and other things of SW.

    What are you trying to say? Vader deflected it, he didn't absorb it.

    Yes it can

    Reply? :bugeye:

    Proof?

    Then if Vader couldn't do it, why didn't Sidious do it at the battle of RotJ?

    I believe yoda said that an object's size means nothing to the force.

    Federation ships have shown on multiple occations that size matters not.

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  11. zeel Registered Member

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    the federation alone has nothing on the star wars universe. The only faction i see competeing with the empire in star trek is the borg and they can do it. the borg is just as vast as the empire and its cubes are vastly superior to any ISD. Several borg cubes and there are literally tens of thousands of them all over the place can easily wipe out a super star destroyer. Nothin to my knowledge the borg has can out do a death star station though, i mean in pure fire power all together.

    the force is not a factor anymore=) all ya need to do is obtain one of the many diffrent animals on some of the planets in the star wars galaxy that can counter act the force.

    I think star wars fans get to excited bout the size of ships. Large capital ships are good for one thing, hitting hard and they do nothing against bombers that what frigets , corvetts and other fighters are for.

    To give you a idea how how tough a single Borg cube is go to Merzo.net. Compare a ISD to a single borg cube. And then comnpare it to a Super start destroyer. It cost the empire alot of time money and resources to create the superstar destroyers and some of the larger capital ships. Borg cubes are a dime a dozen and are roughly the equivelent to 2-3 imperial star destroyers. As far as technology goes. Hands down the borg is constantly adding to their knowledge of the many thousands of races they have encountered. In a head on battle if you do not use any type of virus and kill the collective in that way the borg is just going to out last the empire.


    Dont care if the empire has ships that reach 100 miles in length. It means nothing. the borg is to vast and that alone is enough to match up to the empire. I think the borg is the toughest oponent in the star trek universe for the empire.

    And if you bring up the force or the sith or the jedi's, then you must also bring up the "Q" in the star trek universe, and no sane die hard star wars fan wants to compare the jedi or sith to the "Q" which are the equivelent to gods in the star trek universe. the "Q" would wipe the floor with the entire star wars universe and star trek universe alone with every jedi,sith lord, and the borg empire and all the jedi masters at the same time. The "Q" are on a whole new level and not really worth compareing to the rest casue it in reality is not a contest.



    I think the star wars universe is more popular, where the star trek universe may not be. But all in all both have their strong points, but i still think the edge goes to the star trek universe. This is not including the "Q"
     
  12. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Actually, in ST there are very limited Planetary defenses. Most systems have a few hundred fighters, some converted freighters and possibly something akin to a stripped down Defiant class war crusier. Larger worlds have improved defenses and in at least one case massive mine fields. However these defenses are aimed more for taking on hostile spaceborne organisms rather than a hostile fleet. System defense in ST depends on deep space sensor arrays that make even the best Romulan cloaks pointless as Strategic devices. The advanced warnings provided by these arrays give just enough time to gather together a strike force or fleet and provide a timely intercept.

    Against an attacking SW fleet these defenses would be beyond useless. The deep space sensors would be unable to detect the ships in hyperspace. When the fleet breaks out they would release fighters and escorts and begin targeting enemy bases. With superiority of numbers and technology a SW fleet would crush any culture in the Milky Way.
     
  13. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    4,149
    Actually the Borg Collective is only one trillion sentients at most and covers about 25% of the milky way. The Empire at it's height had hundreds of trillions of sentients and covered 75% of a galaxy that was one and a half times the size of the Milky Way.

    The Borg have weapons ranging in the multi megatons and obtain their superiority through assimiliation of their targets. However even a 30 year jump in technology is enough to put them at an extreme disadvantage. The first Borg cube to meet the enterprise was almost disinegrated by a a barrage of Phaser strikes. It's only method of assualt was to overload the shields of the offending craft and beam aboard drones, after using lasers to cut a section of the hull for study. their vessels are unbelievably fragile without their shielding and even that cannot keep them safe against a dozen Federation vessels. Now imagine a cube facing an enemy that is carrying 100 cannons that each put out as much power as a Federation Starship produces. How long would it take to overload the shields of a vessel that can repell dozens of 12.5 gigaton blasts before starting to buckle. How are they going to beam Drones in when there is a second set of shielding running through the hull.

    Chances of a Borg Cube versus Imperial II Star Destroyer: 1 in 10,000 of there being a trace of the Cube left.


    Only one animal counteracts the force completely, and it is on exactly one planet and cannot be supported except by ver specific means. Even then some force users can ignore these limitations.

    Actually, a Star Destroyer is capable of defending itself quite capably against a bomber squadron. Whithout battleship support it is considered suicide to fight squadrons against any model Star Destroyer. Without complete plans, nothing short of several Sovereign class Star Destroyers can handle even the first Death Star.

    Plus honestly 90% of the largest Star Wars vessels carry at least a squadron of fighters.


    The first Super Star Destroyer and First Death Star took a long time and many resources to build, however subsequent ones have been much easier. The second Death Star was started several days after Luke fought vader on Bespin. Six months later it was 80% complete and battle ready. And this was keeping the construction hush-hush and completely secret until Palpatine wanted it revealed. Several other Super Star Destroyers were built each faster and easier than the last.

    ISD comprise one part of the Imperial fleet there are 10,000 of them ISDII are another part and are a little behind at 4000-6000. VSD and VSDII are tugging along at 15,000 each, Nebulan Frigates number in the hundreds of thousands, Coriellon Corvettes in the millions. Hell, the planet of Mon Cal produce several hundred ships each the match of a Star Destroyer in just a few months.

    As for toughness, Borg cubes are fragile and much like a box constructed of mesh screen. SW ships are built to give and take a pounding.

    Actually the Borg would the easiest opponent. No need to worry about capture. Just practice scorched earth practices. Locate Borg world, hyperspace in, destroy plent, jump out, repeat as neccesary until Borg have no planets left. Star hunting ships. Leave nothing alive.

    It's so much harder when you want to rule over a people rather than destroy them.

    Actually Yoda, Vader, Palpatine and Luke are all so beyond a Q it is not even funny. The only things we have seen Q do is time manipulation, matter manipulation, and teleporting. The last two are like replicators and transporters. They can't even read minds like the simple beta-zeds. The four force users I mentioned can manipulate time, manipulate matter, one learned to move matter, heal, read and control minds, precognition, and feats that even Q would be very impressed by. But in al reality there is no outer limit to what a Force user can do, becuase they do not draw on themselves, but an entire universe of life. Besides the Force users are an integral part of the story line in SW and are present in 90% of the stories. Q hasn;t even appeared in 5% of Star Trek and even then he as expressed that the Q stay out of mortal affairs. they have a interest in humanity, but the Empire is human as well.
     
  14. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Actually, no it isn't. If you trust the Force fully, like Luke does you can move Black Holes,

    Lucas, who decides what is canon, has said that the EU is part of the canon, it is just that the what he films as movie trumps anything in EU if the two disagree.

    Actuallythe glove is laced with mandoloran iron and could easily have deflected standard blaster bolts on it's own. FOr whatever might have leaked through Vader could have yused the force to absorb the damage to refresh himself rather than have it be lethal. It's a common Jedi power in those Knight rank and beyond. Both Obi-wan and Anakin used it when figthing on Mustafar so as not to suffer the roasting effects of the lava.

    I do want to point out that while characters have bluffed that a Phaser could be used on widebeam and on kill it has NEVER been shown. The heating element of phasers is well known, but oddly never used on a living organism, but wide angle kill has never been shown. It might be of note that by the time that Tuvok was making his threat, the crew knew he was not himself and were hoping to play him for the fool by keeping mouth shut.

    As for jedi resisting stun, they do it quite frequently. It's why they are hard to take down. Between their supreme metabolic control and ability to channel the energy into recuperative energies a stun is useless unless you catch them unaware, which is nearly impossible.

    Becuase when a Darkside user uses that much Force it drains them physically. Besides he had the Death Star and was winning. Hello? brain cells are you working.


    Yes, but smaller is a bit easier to move.

    True, but they were facing enemies who were at most 4 to six years more advanced. Imagine facing someone whe developed something much faster than warp 25,000 years ago.
     
  15. Flectarn Unregistered User Registered Senior Member

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    except 120,000 ly (the common eu figure) is 1.2 times the size of the milky way not 1.5, and every map of the star wars galaxy i've ever seen shows the empire/republic being in half the galaxy and the rest being unexplored (well thats how i interpret unknown regions anyway), making it difficult for them to control 75% of it

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    of course from what i hear the only high cannon sources seem to indicate it's a "moderately sized galaxy" which with put it probably in the 50,000ly range, the milky way is big (or so i've read)
     
  16. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    4,149
    Actually since the Federation is a communist rebublic win the time of TNG I would bet the Rebels would be more likely to to let the empire conquer them, equip them with proper technology and then try to subvert them to the Alliance cuase. After all it's hard enough to stay supplied as it is, fighting alongside an ally who is using muskets when you need Javelin Missile launchers is just depressing.
     
  17. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    4,149
    Actually the Milky Way is 80,000 light years across and is considered medium sized. The SW galaxy is 120,000 light years across and would still be medium sized. Lucas has said quite plainly that the Empire control 75% of the galaxy, not that all of it is completely explored there are many uncharted stars and settlement inside the Empire's borders much like there are unexplored worlds in the federation borders.
     
  18. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Well, perhaps you should take another look at the Mos Eisley hangar scenes where Han blows Torso sized chunks of reinforced concrete out of the wall with his hand gun.
     
  19. Flectarn Unregistered User Registered Senior Member

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    347
    Wiki says differently http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way

    so does NASA http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/001205a.html
     
  20. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    4,149
    And yet Photon torpedoes can miss a 700 meter long ship by kilometers at point balnk range.

    Exaggerating a bit of vader's part, though Luke could do it.

    Actually that was his first quote, then he decided against it later. He said his story of Star Wars is just the movies and the movies trump everything that conflicts directly. EU is still very much a part of canon and Lucas has even drawn on it several times and alluded to it being the answer to several things he does not show in the movies.

    Actually by Gene's quote was "It's not Star Wars until I say it is." he never went back on that actually. Though excpeted wisdom is all movies, the live actions series, except Enterprise as that flies in the face of what the history was.

    Actually the blaster bolt is just as fast as the phaser. And the jedi do not react after the tigger is pulled, but rather before. As for width the average handphaser or phaser rifles beam is pencil thin.

    And Luke does have the Absorb Energy ability, quite effectively too. Walking directly on the surface of a lava lake tends to prove that. Several other Jedi have it as well. Vader might have not used it, but he displayed it on Mustafar.
     
  21. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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  22. Flectarn Unregistered User Registered Senior Member

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  23. Flectarn Unregistered User Registered Senior Member

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    fair enough, i was just going by diameter, not area (what i assume you calculated)
     
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