Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

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Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. 150dpi Registered Member

    Messages:
    15
    That is true. Replication technology does not exist in the star wars technology. Having the borg assimilate all mining droids in its mining operations will stop its flow of raw materials.

    During this time, hit and run attacks will commence behind enemy lines by cloaked fleets consisting of Romulan Valdore class and Klingon Negh'Var and Bird of Prey classes. Primary targets will be cloning facilities and ship yards.

    Jedis from the SW universe will no doubt try to sneak into our high command and assassinate ST's leaders using its mind tricks. Therefore, ST command will use a combination of borg tactical cubes and species 8472 ships to guard its borders. Both are are immune to jedi mind tricks.

    The Federation and Jem'Hadar will provide backup when needed. lol.
     
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  3. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Well first you'd have to stop the mining. Not entirely possible given that mining planets are as heavily guarded as Coruscant. Which even with the chancellor helping the CIS in kidnapping him they were detected and engaed by heavy fleet elements in minutes. The battles lasted long enough for Obi Wan and Skywalker to hyperspace in, formulate a plan and get into and they were hours away from Coruscant at the start of the battle.

    Your cloaked ships would be easily detected by SW gravity sensrs not to mention Yuuzahn Vong technology. They would be destroyed long before they could get anywhere near the facilities. Remember only phasers and photns need lock ons to be effective. Turboalsers have human gunners.

    Actually considering the mental make up of these beings they would be infinitely easier to control than even a resisting human. Species 8472 would never get in the fight as SW has no reason to go to fluid space and thus would never be a threat and would even eleiminate two possible threats. the Borg are a collective intellects whos will is superceded and supressed. One Jedi would own the Queen in a mental struggle and thus own the collective.


    And they would be crushed by superior number weapons, technology and firepower.
     
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  5. 150dpi Registered Member

    Messages:
    15
    Stopping the mining operations is simple. Considering your mining operations are done using droids. These droids can easily be assimilated by the Borg or even have the entire planet destroyed by Species 8472 altogether in a matter of seconds.

    How would they "detect" our cloaked fleets if they can't even detect a millenium falcon piggy back riding on the back of a star destroyer? Your sensors are either not sensitive enough or has major weak points.

    Are you telling me that human gunners are more accurate then the computer? If this is the case, you wouldn't have the Aegis system in the US Navy. When Luke and Han was trying to fight off those tie fighters using those gun turrets on the millenium falcon, they missed 70% of the time.**Hardly efficient at all.

    Star Trek aiming HARDLY EVER miss. Your ships are so large, it will be almost impossible to miss. Your ships are so slow, it will be almost 100% accuracy every single time.


    When Borg drones are assimilated, they become ONE. They no longer have an independent mind for a jedi to control. They'll first need to be severed from the collective. I don't see how a Jedi can use its mind control techniques on the entire Borg collective. Basically this is equivalent to a Jedi trying to mind control a bunch of computers that is connected into one network using a wireless connection. Can Jedis uses its powers to rewrite code? to hack? Not sure.

    Of course, the borg has far more advanced technologies then just a simple wireless lan network. lol. Afterall, they did assimilate its technology from thousands of other races.

    Why won't the Species 8472 fight the Empire? This is a hypothetically scenario against the Star Wars universe vs the Star Trek universe, so we should debate this as if all species and race were in an alliance to fight off the other universe. If we follow your logic, we can also argue that Jedi or the Federation would never fight against each other as well? The empire will back stab the Rebels when trying to fight off Star Trek forces?

    And how would this Jedi get inside the Borg Nexus? Is like a termite trying to get inside an army ant colony trying to assassinate its queen.


    Technology? Star wars universe is still using human gunners, push buttons, levers, switches and crank wheels. They don't even have touch screens. Most of the droids in the Star Wars universe (r2d2) still rolling on wheels and make beeping sounds. Just like my automatic vacuum cleaner.

    Why does it take 200 people to power up the Super laser in the Death star? Why can't the emperor just order Tactical to aim and fire? Who would sit there and let the superlaser power up anyways? Better question, who would actually fight in front of the super laser? This is one of the weakness with the super laser, its too slow and can only target slow stationary objects like planets. Whereas Species 8472's super weapon is mobile enough to be used on anything.

    Star Wars tech has stopped evolving when Return of the Jedi came out. Star trek technology has been constantly evolving even after The Original Series. It continues to evolve through The Next Gen, DS9, and then to Voyager which featured Ablative Armor on the Voyager.

    With Ablative armor, federation ships could fly straight inside the Empire fleet and shoot at anything at will with quantum torpedoes. Your fleet will have to worry about cross fire and hitting their own ships due to its lack of accuracy by its human gunners. Your huge ships will crash into each other trying to evade our quantum torpedoes or temporal flux torpedoes.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
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  7. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    Actually to be honest.

    The Jedi would be obliterated by the queen.

    The queen is not the leader of the borg, she is a physical manifestation of the borgs collective mind "I am the borg, the beginning the end"- Borg queen First contact.

    Which means that the jedi is not fighting to control a single mind, since the queen is the manifestation of hundreds of billions of mind, i think the mere attempt of the jedi to enter the mind of the queen would drive the jedi to insanity.
     
  8. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    I think that the wh40k universe could easily beat SW, probably ST too, without breaking a sweat.

    1.) The smallest ship size is 2 km long the largest being 6-8 km. An ISD is what like 1 km?

    2.) The average space marine soldier is a super soldier, 8 feet high, super strength, can survive in space, and the elite ones wear suits that can survive for extended periods of time inside the actual generater of a ship.

    3.) Each ship has dozens and dozens of weapons batteries and each ship can easily destroy a planet.

    4.) Tyranids, could easily beat the living shit out of 8472, they are basically like the borg except purely organic, and they dont assimilate they eat everything and create more soldiers. Their fleets are so massive they literally look like an orange cloud in space.

    5.) The chaos space marines would corrupt imperial worlds turning the inhabitants against each other.

    Just the space marines have atleast 39,000 warships anywhere from a mere 2 km to a whopping 8 km in length.

    And the Imperial guard has potentially ten times that number total. And thats not even including the dozen or so other races that inhabit the 40k universe.
     
  9. 150dpi Registered Member

    Messages:
    15
    but 8472 is a walking virus.

    To be honest I don't know anything about wh40k. lol. and I'm sure many universes can beat out Star Trek. Just not Star Wars.
     
  10. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    The tyranids are nasty little f*******, they use numbers to overwhelm, but that is because of their enemies like the space marines which are few in number but are all but invincible because of their power armor.

    Space marines were created because the enmies of mankind were pushing the imperial guard back so the space marines were made to have the most incredible armor in all of mankind, and to be mutated into super soldiers.

    They can produce acid from their bodies, when their skin is cut it instantly heals with scar tissue in seconds.

    It is said that a single vanguard assault marine armed with nothing but his fists and wits can storm an enemy fortification and come out victorious, and give him a chainsword (like a big chainsaw except way more lethal) and a bolt pistol and he can do that three times over.

    They are literally super humans.
    They are the best because they are immortal, they can eb killed, but they wont die of natural causes. And because of that the average space marine has seen campaigns spanning hundreds of worlds on thousands of battlefields. So they have the most incredible battle experiance that cna be imagined.
    1,000 space marines make up a chapter, and there are 1,000 chapters. The chapter master is the greatest warrior of mankind he answers to the emperor of man or other of his rank, he does not take commands from any lesser man, living, or dead. His battle experiance and tactics are honed to the point of instinct.


    The tyranids are basically aliens that do nothing but eat entire worlds, they strip worlds of anything organic and everything, and make new ships and soldiers out of them. They create soldiers, some with limbs that can cut through the heaviest armor, others that spit venom that can disolve anything, the tyranids are extremely lethal and constantly mutate and adapt.
     
  11. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    Problem is, it wouldn't take any time for the Federation to develop a virus able to obliterate the Tyranids... hell, even in WH40K they were able to do it, and the Space Marines are hardly a 'scientific' bunch...

    As for why 8472 or the Borg would fight...

    Scott... have you forgotten... it's ALL OF TREK vs ALL OF WARS or Trek vs Wars with each party acting as they would. Either way, Wars if FUCKED.

    Imagine the Rebellion working with the Federation/Klingon/Romulan/Vulcan/Lyran/Hydran/ISC/Gorn/Rogue Borg...

    An assimilated X-Wing with Ablative Armor... putting HyperDrive on Cubes to use inside TransWarp Hubs... Gravimetric Proton Torpedoes... the Empire would be fucked six ways to sunday...
     
  12. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    Also - the Tyranids are doomed already Fedr... Trek can simply pour Deuterium on them - Deuterium disolves any and all ORGANIC compounds (as stated in Star Trek: First Contact)... and as it's more than plentiful in the Federation... yeah. LOL, I never thought of that before

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  13. Lord Vasago bcd Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    827
    Seeing the Movie im wondering what the hell you are talking about. They don't mention co-axial warp drive ???? are you referring to spock's ship?
    It wen't trough a black hole as did nero's ship. They didn't timetravel. they whe're sucked into a blackhole created bij red matter.
    whitch is pretty neet though. One drop to Vulcans core and bye bye planet.
    nice special effects too.

    the one thing you can't forget is that spock isn't alive in TNG. so the future that spock comes from is before TNG meaning the tech can't be more advacend then TNG so oops sorry no CoAxial drive there or quantum pulse canons either.

    i loved the new startrek movie.

    the transport during warp is cool. as is the red matter. Curious though about how long its gonna take Trekkies to claim that we can build red matter and a hole lot of science mambo jambo to explain something that was just neet to look at
     
  14. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    Uhm... what?

    Spock IS alive in TNG... hell even SAREK is for a while... what are you smoking mate?

    As stated on Spock's wiki:

    He even showed up in the two-part episode Unification... so yeah... Spock was VERY much alive in TNG...

    And Co-Axial warp isn't time travel - it's similar to Dune's space-fold... without the risk of slamming into planets

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    The idea behind it is to "fold" space AND "contract" space AND "pull" yourself thru space while propelling yourself fowards... it's complicated

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    And the cannons on Spocks ship were Quantum Pulse Cannons, a sort of mix between Pulse Phasers and Quantum Torpedoes- it was shown in DS9 and TNG on the Banshee Heavy Fighter craft - there they seemed almost like Micro-Quantum Torpedoes... *shrugs*
     
  15. 150dpi Registered Member

    Messages:
    15
    A fleet of Prometheus Class Warships all enhanced with Ablative Armor each carrying a legion of Borg tactical drones that are enhanced by ONE, the 29th century borg drone. Armed with Temporal Flux torpedoes armed with Quantum warheads.

    Escorted by Species 8472 bioships, also with Ablative Armor.

    Romulan and Klingon warships, also armed with Ablative Armor and Quantum Temporal Flux Torpedoes will be equipped with Interphase cloaking devices.

    This will allow them to fly through the Death Star and rip the thing to shreds from the inside.

    Q being a funny guy, he snaps his fingers and brings back the empire from extinction. ONly to become eradicated a second time by Star Trek.

    Game Over Empire.
     
  16. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    Lets not get big headed here - it wouldn't be QUITE that simple mate... one, I doubt 8472 bioships could be equiped with Ablative Armor, much less Romulan or Klingon ships, mostly due to the lack of a sufficient computer core... or power core for 8472 ships...

    Interphase Cloaks... maybe. Doubtful, but maybe.
     
  17. 150dpi Registered Member

    Messages:
    15
    Voyager uses bio-neural circuitry to increase its computer performance. The ships of Species 8472 does have a neurological computer core, which is a far more advanced technology then that of the bio-neural circuitry or Voyager's computer core.

    As for the Romulan and Klingon, they can always borrow the computer core technology from the Federation. They must unit to defend the Star Trek universe afterall. lol

    Interphase Cloaking technology does work. The Enterprise D was able to use it to escape the collapsed Asteroid.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2009
  18. Lord Vasago bcd Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    827
    ok my bad. I didn't see every single episode of tng.
    still i didn't hear anyone mentioning Coaxial drive though.
    what they did mention is a lightningstorm in space. Once when Nero's ship entered and once 25years later when spock's ships entered at the same spot. Spock mentioned what took seconds for him took Nero 25years.
    they both we're sucked into a blackhole created when spock shot the red matter into the star making it colapse. So they both timetravelled to the same spot but 25years apart. there was no mentioning of spacefolding.

    one question though. when spock is telling to the young kirk you see him watch the planet turned into a blackhole. howcome the planet their standing on is so close yet isn't being sucked into that blackhole ?????
     
  19. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    And watch the captain swear as the temporal flux torpedoes trip off the temporal shielding that all SW ships have thanks to hyperdrive. Result nice fireworkd akin to the effect the Jupiter 2's torpedoes had against the Arachnids in Lost in Space.

    First of all you have to splice technology with the 8472 biomatter, not likely given theri paranoia. Secondly like before SW has no interest in fludic space thus, Speciaes 8472 would see the incursion of the Empire against the Borg and Federation as a blessing.

    Ah again temproal shielding, but also add in tractor beams as even phased cloaked ships are subject to artificial gravity.

    They might be able to fly inside byut any they fire while cloaked would remain phased long after it fet the Death Star.

    Acutally if Q was sadistic he might bring ST back for round two just to see what idiocy you would try again.



    Remember this is an all out war, no warning for the Federation becuase the Empire would give non. Instantly Earth would be an asteroid belt, followed closly by Mars and then then the Empire wold start making offers surrender to the empire and keep your planet. How much of the Federation would stay?

    SW has the edge in FTL, numbers, firepower, production, shielding, and all over technology. Not to mention strategic and tactical genius. In a WAR the Empire would win in the first two weeks.
     
  20. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    You're kidding, right. A human with no more willpower than a trained soldier was able to resist the Queen's siren call. Not to mention and Android with literally no willpower. Now compare this to a being who has struggled every day since he was 2 years old with temptations of power so great that even the Borg Queen would be boggled. Every Jedi is the embodiment of willpower, self control and power incarnate. The whole reason Anakin fell was he was already so powerful he could literally do anything and yet the Dark Side was promising ever more.
     
  21. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Don't confuse heavily defended SW worlds with undefended ST ones. Maining worlds are covered in defensive satellites each roughly 1/12 a SSD. Whisch still puts the, at several ISD's. The planets are covered in shields so powerful that if you dropped Luna on them, she would be vaporized instantly. Plus you would be tected YEARS before you made it near any of the planets.

    Your cloaks cover energy emissions and visual only. Star Wars has sophisticated gravity, MAD, and even old fasshioned radar backing up such sensors. Yes there are a few blindspots that a miniscule 25meter long ship that is treated with the SW equivalnet of blackball armor to hide. But you would have to know ther ships inside out to know them.

    Considering that STar trek misses 70% of the time. I'd call it fair. But the great thing about human gunners is that the more eyes looking for a ship the more likely to find it.

    Are you kidding. In Generations the Durass sisters missed the Enterprise more than 50% of the ime despite that she was moving in a straight line at low speed at practically point blank range. And this is one of the movies where they are quite accurate.

    Plsu SW uses tons of EW, something ST has forgotten all about.



    actually form waht we have see the minds merge and the group works like a hive mind, not a computer. Hell a desk top unit on voyager was out performing the whole collective in calculations. A jedi could easily influence a supressed will like this. it would be a cake walk.

    And yet get their asses kicked by the humans repetively. In fact they show no greater technological development than the Federation does.

    Actually as the Jedi are more likely to side wuith the Empire against a common enemy (the Vong come to mind) than SPecies 8472 is likely to come to the rescue of two sets of being that had murdered thousands of them.

    Wouldn;t need to any Borg would be all you need to take out here Queen.



    So they are smart enough to use technology that has feedback. We have had touch screens for some time, but take a look at a 747 cockpit and tell me what you see. Same with M1A1 tanks and such and so forth. Human gunners are not always superior to computerized robotic gunners, butb they are much harder to trick.

    Actuually the Superlaser is a strategic weapon. Not a tactical one. When you understand the difference you'll realise your question and argument is pointless.

    In correct technology in Star Wars universe has been evolving in the novels all the time. Just slowly becuase once you reach the pinnacle s of any tech tree you get diminsihing returns. The fact that ST evolves so quickly is proff of how far down the tech tree it is.

    A Quantum torpedo s 128 megatons or roughly 1/5 a proton torpedo. TIE would be dodging but the ships would be laughing their asses off.
     
  22. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    It wasnt her willpower just seduction.

    The fact is that when you open your mind to a few trillion minds. Something tells me that no jedi out there not even yoda can control more than 100 minds for 5 minutes let alone several trillion.
     
  23. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    Heh heh like that quote.

    Though yah, the tyranids adapt too quickly. Remember in wh40k, just because you defeated that "tendril" of the hive fleet does not count for shit, they will just come back again and this time your viruse wont work.

    Also, in case you forgotten the Space marines had already faced the tyranids multiple times, they knew what to do.

    The feds nor wars would not have any sort of clue what to do.

    The tyranids would literally rip them to pieces.
     
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