Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

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Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. USS Exeter unamerican american Registered Senior Member

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    I changed my avatar
     
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  3. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    You realize you are asking Scott to be reasonable... is like asking a hurricane to stop raining.
     
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  5. Qui-Gon Jinn the hippy with a lightsaber Registered Senior Member

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    the defiant can not destroy the DS only a X-Wing T-65 piloted by a jedi can
     
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  7. Qui-Gon Jinn the hippy with a lightsaber Registered Senior Member

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    kittamaru dose the chart you posted show how long or how wide the ships are
     
  8. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    4,149
    No, actually I ignored him becuase he continously brought up arguments already addressed and making accusations that I have provided no calculations. When informed of where they were he refused to check the back log and was insistant that since he had not seen them they do not exist.

    Excsue me but are you fucking retarded? Of course the borgs have shields, they refer to them sevela times in the series.

    As for their adaptation, I am perfectly willing to assume they can can adapt, however since as little as 12 federation vessels, with a combined out put of less than one turbolaser, can defeat a borg cube, then there is little hope that the Borg can withstand SW weaponry.
     
  9. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    You do realize the Tsar bomb was 59 megatons and did a far amount of damage, much more than anything we see in Star Trek..

    Also with suspension of disbelief what Lucas says goes for his universe. You're argument has not bearing on this conversation. Especially since Star trek violate Physics every second of every show.
     
  10. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    4,149
    Actually they were damn clear that the ships were not engaging the Borg cube until it reached Earth. Federation ships maybe able to fire torpedoes at warp, but a Borg cube is faster than any Star Fleet vessel, so there is not keeping up.

    Also there is NO ARMOR on a borg assimilation cube, you can look at it and tell that. With navigation defectors and a structural integrity field the ships hull could be lead and be fine.
     
  11. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    I conceded nothing, mainly becuase I had not agreed to your little deal. Also since you aren't paying me and neither do I live in your dictatorship, you do not get to tell me what to post. Now do yourself a favor and go over the SBBP theory again and this time consult an adult with knowledge of physics and english before you discard it.

    Oh BTW I am not the one who keeops bringing it up. I have the ultimate trump card anyway.
    Power Output of Galaxy class starship warp core, after upgrades. 12.5 billion gigawatts per second
    Output of Heavy Turbolaser form clone wars era 52.25 billion gigawats in 1/15th second
     
  12. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    Wow, I really am amazed at the shit you try to pull here Scott. You have yet to prove anything. In fact, you can't even answer one fucking question! If each HTL is capable of 12.5 gigatons, why wasn't there a massive shockwave when the SSD exploded? Surely you can answer that!

    And backlog? Are you fucking kidding me? There are over 200 pages to go through, and you want me to find it for some obscure reference? And not only that, but your argument fails simply from the fact that an exploding SSD should have caused a massive shockwave and didn't?

    Your argument is full of shit.
     
  13. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Hey moron eat away the shielding to a volatile powerplant would tend to make it explode. Since we know that these are distributed through the ship it is a logicla explantion.


    Okay, here is your problem I have proved it mathematically as have others. Everytime you punch in the data same answer comes out it takes a shitload of power to vaporize a 40 meter across asteroid.

    As for the Borg curbe we were not informed of it's make up and like I have poitned out 80% to 90% open space and the areas were hemispherical. So several full second blasts at point blank range to a basically unprotected target of unknown composition cannot be compared. Actually the two should not be compared no matter what as the SW asteroid was made of material we do not have.


    First you are assuming that an 18 km long vesell is going to have an effect on a 1600km diameter vessel that has a thickened nuetronium armor belt under the surface super structure.

    Second you are assuming that somehow the energy would be carried over to the fighter. I may ask how? There is no air to condutive the shockwaves or heat, in fact all of that is being sucked up by the surface of the Death Star

    Finally you are assuming that the Deaht Star could transfer the energy to Endor in enough quantities to shatter it. Again the problem of a conductive medium. And Endor is roughly earth size. it would take energy on an a scale you have yet imagined to destroy it.

    Your basing your arguments on flawed science
     
  14. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    4,149
    Explained above.

    If you aren't willing to do the research why are you in this argument?
     
  15. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

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    1,099
    1) What are you, stupid? Why the fuck would they engage it right above their home base rather than at a safer distance where more powerful weapons could be fielded? And if that where true, why was the Borg cube slowly moving toward the planet when we see it? Would not it be sitting in space obliterating the enermy ships? And if that is even true, how would this matter? Its fact that the UFP fleet had engaged the Borg at that time, even if they where at Earth, it still would have taken days for the Enterprise E to reach Earth, which means that the Borg Cube still had destroyed alot of ships before they got there.

    2) So, navigation deflectors...you mean like the ones that aren't on the ship? In fact, have you ever seen one on a cube? Ever? Oh, and by the way, structual integrity is always active (not always at combat ready standards), so that would mean that the materials would be even stronger, thaks!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  16. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    Except there are a number of problems with that:

    1) There is no proof of a power generation source in that area.

    2) Your just making some shit up to avoid the point.




    No you haven't. It does not take 300 fucking megatons to vaporize a 40 meter space rock with nikel in it.

    Except only 50% of it was empty space, and it was made out of a much tougher material with a SIF running through it. And lets take a wild guess...logic says the strongest material they could find would be what they would make their ship out of. So, we can just use the strongest metal we have today. You'll notice this isn't rock or nikel.


    You do know that Star Wars neutronium is not real nuetronium right?


    Lack of air or heat does not cease the effect of a powerful shockwave, furthermore, there is air in space, just not enough of it. There would be a shockwave, it would be vastly weaker than what would occur from one on earth where there is alot of air, but there would be a shock wave, as energy is being released in all directions. The reason why you don't often get shock waves is because the energy expands far too quickly, making it effectively worthless. However, when you have a ship whose HTLs have more firepower than a warpcore of a star ship (one which does provide a shock wave upon a warp core breach by the way), then the energy that is unleashed is going to be massive, incredibely massive. There is actuall enough energy there to cause a shockwave that can harm those fighters.

    Of course, putting this aside, I would like to remind you of Han's quote of how not even the entire starfleet could destroy a planet. If HTLs where 12.5 gigatons, a fleet of them would literally have torn aldeeran apart.

    ...It was right above it. And Endor wasn't Earth sized.

    Coming from you that's almost funny.
     
  17. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    Taken care of, again you fail.



    You posted it way back and declared it right. Others said you where wrong.

    In essence, you claimed something to be true, and yet you do not post it. If you claim it to be true, then you must show the evidence, not just say you did it and expect people to waste their time on your behalf. Fact is, you haven't shown me the proof and no one with any shred of a life would look through 200 pages for a sci-fi debate.:bugeye:
     
  18. Qui-Gon Jinn the hippy with a lightsaber Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    78
    what do you want proof on
     
  19. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    I warned you what would happen if you decided to ignore my arguments and make your defeated points later on in this thread; that they where invalid until you challenged my post that proved them wrong.

    You see, this works on a method of logic. You did not answer my posts, thus you could not actually answer them. You just pushed it off and then came back later to attack others with the arguements that I had already shown to be wrong. Thus, its very obvious that you are just re-hashing your arguments in order to try and win even after you have been proven wrong time after time after time.

    You where wrong about the Survivors, which its very clear that the UFP does not have 400 gigawatt shielding, I proved you wrong in the Doomsday machine where you criticized the UFP needing to sacrifice one of their ships to create an explosion of around 90 megatons and described it as pathetic. Little did you seem to mention that both ships where heavely damaged, their anti-matter useless, thus rendering their warp cores and their photon torps worthless, and the ship that did self-destruct was using its impulse engines and was having power troubles as it was. You claimed that photons only gave of a few tons of explosive energy, something that was easily proven wrong thanks to the Die is Cast, A Taste of Armageddon, and Broken Link. In fact, you even tried to claim that all on-screen evidence must all be accounted for rather than using logic and reason to take the majority of it and discard that which goes against what the show tries to present. I disproved this stupidity with the Defiant's size change. Its very clear that the characters did not notice, and nor was there a mention of the ship changing size. Just like your argument of the Survivors, the crew never noticed anything wrong, but we know the ship is 180 meters long and that UFP ships cannot change their size of shape. Furthermore, you ignore future examples of higher firepower just to satisfy your deranged yields.

    You mean the trump card that has been proven to be wrong time after time? And what, its up to 52.25 gigatons now? Jeeze, your pathetic.

    Lets take a look at this:

    1) Your taking from lower levels of cannon that claims high yields.

    2) These yields are not seen in G-level canon, and you have to in fact try the old "well, it never says they don't have it, so its canon!" shit and attempt to manipulate quotes to your advantage.

    3) Han Solo himself claimed that the entire Starfleet could not destroy a planet, this tells us that the ships cannot even deploy high level megaton weapons.

    4) The SSD gave off no massive shockwave, in fact, it hardly seemed to explode really.

    5) In both cases of the Death Star exploding, not fighters or moons are actually harmed, even though they should be given that the HTLs of both are in the gigatons and the reactors are likely a hell lot more than that.

    6) Attempting to assume that Solo has no idea of what he's talking about is flawed since we have observed him displaying tactical knowledge of Imperial ships and operations, such as dumping their trash before hyperjumps and the sensor blindspot on the back of their bridges.
     
  20. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    He posted a calc way before I joined this debate, and is trying to use that as evidence, claiming that its fair game to use even though he won't provide it. He claims that if I want to argue it, I need to find it, which is just stupid.
     
  21. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    4,149
    Dude, are you insane. They were very clear that they were intercepting the Borg vessel at Earth. Probably becuase they needed time to round up two dozen ships to fight the Borg vesel. The Borg cube is obviously moving at impulse, prbably came out at some distance in order to deal with defenders more easily. Finally it was clear from the movie that while the Enterprise was at the nuetral zone, it was a section that was very close to Earth. They had been receiving live feed from the defense feet, meaning they had to be close. Hell form the time Picard gave the order to head to Earth and the time they got there was daman fast, portrayed as less than half an hour.


    Do you have proof that the Borg vessels do not have navgational deflectors? Oh and a SI field means the amterial under the SI field is too structurally weak and must be reinforced.
     
  22. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Actually it was a Quote from Data about the difficulty of fighting the borg. I have no proof it is there, but you have no proof it isn't Phasers have never, ever done that sort of damage before or since, so it is a logical assumption.

    Actually, it does. You have to factor in all the variables seen incuding the supersonic heating. Besides canonically the asteroids were iomite and few other highly durable metals with an extremely high melting point.

    A If you had the strongest materials you could find you would not need SIF.

    B Phasers have never been shown to destroy nearly as much matter before otrr since.

    C. And from visuals 80 to 90% open space.

    Proof

    BTW you do know ST Neutronium is not real neutronium, right.


    Exactly there is such a miniscule amount no shockwave would form and the heat would conduct to the metal impacted, which was so huge that little damage would be done.


    Man, did you flunk 6th grade science or what?

    But you need to be able to compress air for a shock wave dumbass. DOesn't work if the air is that thin.

    Again assuming somthing. A warp breach cuases a subspace shockwave, which defies physics as well. the energy release from all thos cannons would not have cuased have neccessarily cuased an explosion. Actually the energy release would be destroyign the executor and heating a small section of DS hull.

    You do realize that Han could have been mistaken, or exaggerating. However even 10,000 ISD with their 60 HTL's a piece firing simulateously would only provide effects. roughly 100 times the TK event, which was hardly earth shattering in any shape of means.

    Certianly seemed earth sized and had Earth gravity, would indicate earth sized or close.
     
  23. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    4,149
    Wow you have a colorful and vibrant imagination.



    Hey it was backable by sound scientific theory and all the right numbers and consideration of the circumstances. the proof has been posted. It's fine if you are too lazy to look it up. I don't care. However unless you do and succesfully refute it, you can't claim it is false.

    Listen, it's not my behalf that you would be looking, but your own. If you are just too damn lazy to do it then just say so.
     
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