Why do Americans still dislike atheists?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Fraggle Rocker, May 15, 2011.

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  1. Fraggle Rocker

    Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    We do not know for sure that those things exist. But there is overwhelming evidence that something like them exist. The present and past behavior of the natural universe indicate that something with the approximate characteristics of the Higgs boson must exist, and that something with the approximate characteristics of dark matter must exist. If it is not those exact things that we have hypothesized, by looking for them we will come closer to finding the exact things that are responsible for the phenomena we observe.

    In contrast, there is absolutely no evidence of any kind suggesting that an invisible, illogical supernatural universe exists, from which conscious, angry creatures capriciously unleash powerful forces to perturb the behavior of the natural universe. On the contrary, all of the evidence we have collected, since science as we know it arose, supports the premise that the natural universe is a closed system, whose behavior can be predicted by theories derived logically from empirical observation of its past and present behavior.

    We have not solved all of the mysteries of the natural universe, but the ones we have solved never required throwing up our hands and saying, "Oh crap, there simply must be supernatural forces at work because there's no other way to explain these phenomena." The Higgs boson and dark matter may turn out to be incorrect hypotheses, but if they are falsified they will not send us running to a shaman, witch doctor or "priest" for the correct ones.
    Because we never know what's going to help mankind. The Theory of Relativity gave us nuclear power plants. As much as we regret the parallel development of nuclear weapons (which have killed far fewer people than the current Holy War among the Christians, Jews and Muslims), nuclear power appears to be our only short-term hope for reducing greenhouse gases and slowing global warming. Our only long-term hope is a ring of gigantic solar energy collectors in high orbit, beaming energy down as microwaves to receiving stations. This too is the product of science.

    You never know where science will take you until you get there. Cosmology may yet unveil something like wormholes that will allow us to found colonies on other planets, greatly reducing the probability that the Holy War among the deluded believers in "God" will destroy civilization.
    Certainly. But religionists--especially the Children of Abraham--have a nasty habit of rising up in unison every two or three generations in a paroxysm of violence, killing everyone who disagrees with their particular concept of God. This doesn't make anybody happy.
    Asked and answered. We never know the benefit of a discovery until it's been made. On the balance, the unexpected discoveries of science have been a boon to civilization. As a musician and a music lover I personally would not want to live in a world that did not have the 24/7 availability of professionally composed and performed music that we have today.
    That's a rather cynical view of humanity--not to mention historically incorrect. We have been solving problems with technology since the first ancestral species of humans learned how to use rocks as tools. The twin technologies of farming and animal husbandry--the Agricultural Revolution--made life immensely more secure by creating the first food surplus this planet had ever seen, ensuring that there would never again be a famine. At least not until colonialism left the world with dysfunctional nations ruled by despots.

    Would you like to explain your objection to the technology of metallurgy, the wheel, or writing?
    Generally both. I suppose if you have children you have to edit what you say, but I don't have any.
    I have told people what I would like to do but have not found the time or strength to do it. When possible I explain why I failed. Perhaps they will have better luck than I did.
     
    Fraggle Rocker, Jun 8, 2011
    #201

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  3. Captain Kremmen

    Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    Do you really believe that current wars are religious wars?

    They are wars over resources.

    And scientists are helping them to kill a lot more people than they would do otherwise.

    Very good post though.
    I may come back to some of your other arguments.
     
    Captain Kremmen, Jun 8, 2011
    #202

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  5. NietzscheHimself

    NietzscheHimself Banned Banned

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    I find it more probable that we are missing something large from our naturalistic observations than dark matter or the higgs boson. Two things we could never touch or learn how to control.
     
    NietzscheHimself, Jun 8, 2011
    #203

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  7. gmilam

    gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    And we won't know for sure unless we do some research... Duh!
     
    gmilam, Jun 8, 2011
    #204
  8. Dywyddyr

    Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Ooh! Been using your infallible crystal ball again?
    Or maybe just making stuff up...
     
    Dywyddyr, Jun 8, 2011
    #205
  9. John99

    John99 Banned Banned

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    This thread is just immature. Is it some kind of comedy?
     
    John99, Jun 8, 2011
    #206
  10. Yazata

    Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    My biggest objection to Dawkins is that he poses as some kind of authority on "religion", has written several rather sophomoric books on it and teaches something related at Oxford, when in reality he's a complete layman who's largely ignorant of the deeper subtleties of the subject. I don't believe that he's ever sat through a university religion class or done very much serious and extended study of it.

    Dawkins is an excellent world-class evolutionary biologist. Or at least he was, until he was diverted onto spending so much of his time on his antipathy towards religion. He seems to have gotten caught up in battling the anti-evolution creationists and that experience has distorted his whole perception of things.

    Of course not. Announcing that "religion sucks ass" is just an expression of atheist prejudice, reminiscent of the the fundamentalists' own conviction that everyone outside their religion are all doomed and evil sinners
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2011
    Yazata, Jun 8, 2011
    #207
  11. spidergoat

    spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Please don't represent religion as if it were a field where only an expert can know about it's intricacies. Every school child in Britain learns about the official religion in detail. There is nothing special about a priest that gives them a better understanding about religion than a biologist. Religion has distorted people's understanding of biology, so if he can't address that first, everything else he does in the name of popularization of science is useless.

    Atheists are by definition prejudiced against religious claims, because those claims are unjustified by evidence. I don't care how calling something false is reminiscent of someone else calling something false, that is irrelevant. It's typically the last ditch effort to discredit an atheist when people call them fundamentalist. The problem is never fundamentalism but the nature of the fundamentals.
     
    spidergoat, Jun 8, 2011
    #208
  12. NietzscheHimself

    NietzscheHimself Banned Banned

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    My infallible crystal ball has more raw unttapped naturalistic talent than you will ever see if you keep this up.
     
    NietzscheHimself, Jun 8, 2011
    #209
  13. Dywyddyr

    Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Keep what up?
    Questioning your suppositions?
    Querying your pronunciations?

    Do you have any evidence (at all) that your comment is correct?
     
    Dywyddyr, Jun 8, 2011
    #210
  14. NietzscheHimself

    NietzscheHimself Banned Banned

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    Which comment. They all look pretty good to me. Knowledge of something we already understand to exist in reality does not further knowledge. It does not further society with no apparent use. Yet If you could find something known to be tangible. Known to be unique. Known to have many if not all uses yet still vastly misunderstood and unknown to society as a whole.

    You know what my Crystal Ball is friend. Yet you make no harsh statements towards my ideology. No criticism sharp enough to drive a dagger into my words or wisdom. Is that because it is physically impossible? Has your ego finally overrun your snippy mouth to the point in which truth is impossible to see. You have to dodge and retreat constantly hiding your anger behind sarcasm. Bringing up the past on some other topic. Your nothing more than a troll.
     
    NietzscheHimself, Jun 8, 2011
    #211
  15. Dywyddyr

    Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    The one I queried.

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    Wrong.

    Yup, rubbish.

    Nope, it's because your delusion is too profound.

    Still wrong; I'm querying a statement you made in this thread.
    Anger? :shrug:
    Where have I dodged?
     
    Dywyddyr, Jun 8, 2011
    #212
  16. NietzscheHimself

    NietzscheHimself Banned Banned

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    Then what's with the crystal ball? An allusion to a previously mentioned object

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    on a different thread?
     
    NietzscheHimself, Jun 8, 2011
    #213
  17. Kennyc

    Kennyc Registered Senior Member

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    "crystal ball" is often used as generic term for unfounded beliefs, made up statements, etc.
     
    Kennyc, Jun 8, 2011
    #214
  18. Dywyddyr

    Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Because you appear to be making predictions about the future.

    Um, no. You made a statement claiming we could "never" do a particular thing. I wondered how you know this. It's that simple.
     
    Dywyddyr, Jun 8, 2011
    #215
  19. NietzscheHimself

    NietzscheHimself Banned Banned

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    Nothing "profound" will ever come from the machines that "detect" subatomic particles. You might dislike that notion, but my "crystal ball" spills only the truth.
     
    NietzscheHimself, Jun 8, 2011
    #216
  20. Kennyc

    Kennyc Registered Senior Member

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    What? There you go again, speculating.

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    Kennyc, Jun 8, 2011
    #217
  21. NietzscheHimself

    NietzscheHimself Banned Banned

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    Appearances are deceiving. Right now you can't touch dark matter or the higgs... that is truth in the present not future.
     
    NietzscheHimself, Jun 8, 2011
    #218
  22. NietzscheHimself

    NietzscheHimself Banned Banned

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    Difference in definition. If finding something you hoped would be there is "profound".... well obviously our definitions differ. Or you have Alzheimer's.
     
    NietzscheHimself, Jun 8, 2011
    #219
  23. Kennyc

    Kennyc Registered Senior Member

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    993
    As I said, you don't have a clue, you are just speculating and stirring the pot.
     
    Kennyc, Jun 8, 2011
    #220
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