Star Wars vs Star Trek

Flectarn:

I'll concede then that Boba Fett never uses one in the movies and no disruptor is seen on screen. They are, however, used regularly in the EU.

Okay. So it is a dense metal. This is...pretty common in science fiction and it still does not reference the fact that the Cube is mostly empty space. A very small portion was "tritanium".

That's pretty damn dense, I must say. Where does the mass data come from, if I might ask? Is it stated in the episodes, or from other material?

I cannot find any certain mass data for any starships of Star Wars to compare off hand.

 

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Saquist:

Um, no?

The canon clearly states they are lower level canon in terms of the heirarchy of references. Only when something disagrees with higher canon is it dismissed. Thus the movies > EU when a contradiction is found between them. This is established.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon#Canon_in_the_Holocron_continuity_database

That is the official continuity database.

When lower canon contradicts higher canon, higher canon wins.

Yes, it has. With very little effect.

I've all ready given a source which claims that "40 metres" is not at all accurate to reflect all the asteroids in the belt.

You have actually told me not to give references. No? "Do your own research!".

If the asteroids were 40 meters in diameter (and some were much larger), the TLs were directing at least 2000 TJ of energy to vaporise the asteroids, many times the conservative energy level presented above. If the amount of time the bolt is striking the asteroid is 1/15 second (2 frames), 30,000 Terawatts are delivered to the asteroid. Assuming these turbolaser cannons have a maximum firing rate of once every two seconds, they have a sustained firepower of at least 1000 terawatts. The most solid evidence that suggests 40 meter asteroids was in the Avenger-Falcon chase scene, coming out of the asteroid field. One asteroid was at least 60 meters in diameter, which would require at least 6700 terajoules to vaporise! Another asteroid in a previous scene may have been as large as 100 meters in diameter, requiring at least 31,000 terajoules to vaporise! - Same website.

I was referencing the prior crafts, such as Enterprise, for the science vessel moniker.

As to Voyager, Janeway armours up the Voyager in the series from technology she finds:

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Ablative_armor_hull_generator

Comics and the storylines of games are canon. As noted above...Not Marvel Comic Star Wars from the 80's, but the Dark Horse ones. Ala the Sith War ones and the Legacy of the Force Era.

In 2000, Lucas Licensing appointed Leland Chee to create a continuity-tracking database referred to as the Holocron continuity database. The Holocron follows the canon policy that has been in effect for years, but the capabilities of database software allow for each element of a story, rather than the stories themselves, to be classified on their own merits.

The Holocron's database includes an area for a single-letter (G, C, S, N or T) representing the level of canonicity of that element; these letters have since informally been applied to the levels of canon themselves: G-canon, C-canon, S-canon, N-canon and T-canon. As part of his work with the Holocron, Chee was responsible for the creation of this classification, and he spent the early stages developing and refining them into what they are today.

G, C, S and T together form the overall Star Wars continuity. Each ascending level typically overrides the lower ones; for example, Boba Fett's back story was radically altered with the release of Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, forcing the retcon of older source material to fall in line with the new G-canon back story. However, this is not always absolute, and the resolution of all contradictions are handled on a case-by-case basis.


Form the link I give above.

An "easy button weakness"? No. It had one weakness that took the Force to destroy.

Also, that is nonsense: Replicators can't manufacture protomatter. The source of protomatter are scarce. Accordingly, the FEderation couldn't make billions.

Not at all. The Deathstar is far more practical, considering it can be relatively easily built, and it represents an end-game level weapon that can pretty much render resistance moot, especially in its Deathstar II or Eclipse Class Super Star Destroyer configuration.

It's quite canon.

Because the cloak malfunctioned.

And thank you for the Pegasus correction.

USS Voyager is protecting the Nezu from an asteroid bombardment. Despite calculations of targeting based on composition, the blast fails to destroy an asteroid. Fortunately, the remaining fragments land in a desert area. But when the next asteroid is scheduled to hit a major city, and a garbled message indicating the asteroids are artificial is received from Dr. Vatm, a scientist on the ground, and Voyager sends three shuttles to the surface to rescue him. http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Rise_(episode)

There is no reference to asteroids in the Memory Alpha of this episode. I think you are mistaken. Can you double check your sources?

70 percent of the enterprise's mass? Pardon? According to the script, it states:

ILIA
Object is an asteroid, reading
mass point seven...
(consulting instruments)
Impact in eight seconds...
seven... six... five...

It never says ".7 of the Enterprise" but ".7" of what? Also, we know the strengh of photon torpedos from other instances of photon torpedo usage. Photon torpedos are weaker than core explosions, which have a rating of:

"A fusion explosion of 97.835 megatons will result if a starship impulse engine is overloaded." (TOS: "The Doomsday Machine")

Does this episode claim the asterois is 2 km? Also, what sort of explosion is seen?

You seemingly are the one confused. I made explicit referencing of what is blown up and by what. I spoke of turbolasers...a weapon only found on ISDs and in reference to the prior turbolaser discussions.

We do not see them used on a starfighter.

The most recognizable symbol of the Imperial Starfleet was the Imperial-class Star Destroyer, which peaked at over twenty-five thousand vessels,[4] although millions of starships of different designs were fielded for various purposes. - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Navy

ALso, those numbers were reduced from the Galactic Civil War. A war which raged for some 40 years. The decimation of the Empire from that war resulted in its disappearance as a military power of significance until a hundred years later, when it reformed and became even more powerful (Legacy of the Force era).

We know that smaller ships prove effective in situations which demand them. We know fighters, for instance, are highly effective against starships much larger, as are modern fighters today.

Register 80,120 over centuries...and without reference to the types of shipped counted or whether the number indicates the number of the ship in question.

Also, please reference the 5,100 ships from the Dominion War. Taking into consideration again the onscreen fleet numbers in the DS9 eps.

You clearly know nothing about munitions. Weapons have to be especially designed for penetration of various substances. That is why weapons not geared towards bunker busting are ineffectual against bunkers.

Saquist, at this point, I am beginning to wonder whether you can really follow the debate.

I never claimed that turbolasers have no ground penetrating ability. I was referencing your tank figures, as I quoted.

It does not matter, my good man. The only way to analyze sci fi is through observation. You would have us again use fantasy. Litterally.

No I cannot, because it is assumed. The characters, for instance, do not fall through the walls, and there is talk of gravity and electricity and other such things.

Watchy any of the several episodes (including parts of "The Best of Both Worlds") where the cubes are seen from the inside. They include massive open spaces.

Again: A mostly empty-space vessel. There was no "solid stuff". You opened up a huge gash in a diffuse Borg vessel. Proven by the visual evidence.

At this point, due to your lack of analytical skills and insistence on not reading links, accepting science, or otherwise arguing in anyway objectively, I am not going to address you. You claim that I am the one with bias, when you now refuse to discuss laws of science or understand what is and what isn't canon in SW.

 

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Actually, I am going to include Kittamaru, too. He is far worse than Saquist, especially in as much as he is incapable of adding any line without levelling an ad hominem, or even reading what I write properly. At least he doesn't throw out science as a means of analysis.

Flectarn, we may still discuss things, if you wish.

 

Prince, I keep attacking you personally because you seem incapable of listening to rational thought.

And I talked to EIGHT different friends... some Star Trek fans, some Star Wars fans, and others fans of both... they ALL AGREE -

Star Trek vs Star Wars:

Q are better than ANYTHING Star Wars has...
Federation would TROUNCE the Imperials...
Hyperdrive is faster than Warp... but warp shortens the distance you have to travel...
Alderraan was UNSHIELDED...

and a host of other things...!

 

Eight of your friends, eh?
That's really the most rational argument I've ever seen put forward on here

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That's correct. They are lower level of canon, C Canon, part of another Universe according to Lucas in your very own link. I find that the fire power clearly contradicts with the Yuuzahn Vong serires (directly contradicts) which contradicts the movies premise of fire power on terrestrial objects. Since the only conclusive evidence we have of Star Wars fire power on unshielded an un armored objects in planetary battlefields. AotC, Clone Wars, and RotS, this all contradicts the weapon powers you see exaggerated in these comic book scenes. The nonaligned exaggeration must be romoved.

Ah...the same with Star Wars. You know that's true.

You may have linked but I never saw it. I'm not going to read pages and pages of links to find your supportive information, James.

Refrences will include your own research made evident, Visuals and text found in canon. You've failed to do your own reserach. Wong says they are 20 meters in diameter.

These asteroids were at least on the order of 20 meters in diameter. The asteroids appear to be slightly shorter than the diameter of the Millennium Falcon.~Wong

In these images, a 35-40 meter diameter estimate seems more appropriate. ~Wong

That's two different sites saying the same thing. Since you posted links instead of text, I didn't see your refrences. I'm contenent to go with the 40meter estimate based on Falcon size.

But are they saying that was an asteroid that was destroyed or merely one that was present, because I do not see a 100 meter asteroid in the scene. You see that would put the asteroid as the size of the correlian Corvette. That's a considerable size rock. Meaning it could fit quite snuggely into Fighter bay just as the Tantive IV did. I clearly do no not see any rock being vaporized that large. And trust me...If you point it out in the film I will use my CAD to expolate the truth. It can easilly project the actual size of the ISD, the size of the Rock and give an accurate dipiction of the distance between the two based on the size of the objects compared to the scene size.

So please give me that picture which shows a 100 meter rock vaporized by TL cannons.

That is non-canon. Enterprise is never refered to as a science vessel. The only ship's called science vessel are the Nova class and the Oberth Class. Tech manuals refer to the Galaxy as an Explorer. The canon refers to the Constitution as a battlecruiser. I suggest sticking to the canon.

Except were their is contradiction, James, and there is plenty. The story line may align but the stats as far as weapon power does not.

I'm fully aware of canon. Thank you for actually posting text instead of links, though.

It is a falsehood to imply that only the Force could have exploited the weakness in the Death Star. The Rebels were not counting on the Force. Their expectations are canon aswell. Even if the odds were against it, it was still considered possible by the entire briefing.

I feel you've wasted my time with this nonchalant statement.

Pardon me, I don't recall ever saying protomatter can be replicated. Another un supported. I however cannot assume Protomatter is scarce. You have commited an act of speculation. Nothing in canon says that it is scarce.

Protomatter was used by
David Marcus in ST:III, Genesis Device
Professor Gideon Seyetik, to reignite a star.
The Maquis in sabotaging a freighter
Changeling attempting to destroy the Bajoran Sun
And found quite by Voyager in a Nebula

That the Maquis were able to procure the substance and that it has occured five times in Star Trek canon speaks it against it being a rare substance.
Genesis is in the Beta Quadrant, Voyager in the Delta Quadrant, Bajor in the Alpha Quadrant. Every quadrant the series as taken place in the substance has been seen and that's with Trek's limited velocity of travel.

Of course you conceed the point. You conceeded that an arsenal of these weapons would astound you. You were clearly "impressed". You said the Empre would think twice. You may feel free to contradict your previous statement but You've freely given that which I already understood, James, which is the Genesis Device and like weapons are far more impressive and practical than a moon-sized laser.

Yes, I see your point.
It's just not absolute canon.

Please show proof that the cloak malfunctioned.

Correction: The asteroid is destroyed. The canon dictates that it was not completely vaporized as per Harry Kim's statement. Representing the canon propperly will lead to smaller post, James.

Checking Source:
Yes, I refrence the wrong episdoe.
I was in error. If I find it later I will post it[/COLOR]

That is accurate.
.7 could mean one of two things.
A percentage and comparison of the Enterprise's size or mass.
A percentage of a kilometer.

I chose percentage of the Enterprise as more likely but we could go with .7 of a kilometer which would be 700 meters. (but that wouldn't make sense to use a unit of volume as a unit of length.

This does not make sense to me. You say weaker than a core explosion and then instead of using a warp core you qutoe a impulse reactor overload which is clearly not the core of a starship. Perhaps you're not being clear.

No. The show does not state the size of the asteroid.
The visuals reveal that both torpedos disappear for a few seconds before the the explosion occurs. The Enterprise is a little longer than half a kilometer long. A torpedo could be seen even from the Enterprise at that distance. Voyager shows that the torpedoes would be visible right up to impact with an asteroid 300 - 460meters long. Enterprises torpedoes completely disappear for two seconds and then the denonation occurs. It could be larger, of course but I see no indication to support greater than 2km.

Then you purposely were misleading me by refering to turbolasers in a discussions about fighters. If I am confused it is by your part, James. If you stay on topic there would be no misunderstandings. Your comment diverted from the subject I had brought up. Yes, you have shown it to now be irrelevant. Turbolasers are not on fighters as you say...so why mention them when answering an accusation against fighter weapons vaporizing asteroids. You created this problem. If it was you objective to confuse then you suceeded admiralbly.

So the Jedi Star Fighter is not a Star Fighter or the weapon we're speaking of is not the seimic charger released by Boba Fett?

No fighter has ever proven effective against a Federation Starship, James.

Actually we know at what time exactly when the bulk of the Fleet was created.

You must follow the registry, James. It's quite clear.

Prove this inrefrence to Star Wars and you will have one this round, James but please don't assume to graft reality on to science fantasy. Clearly you're confused as to which you're talking about. No one today uses energy weapon today so as to provide a common frame of refrence.

You did refrence turbolasers on a list of weapons that weren't designed to penetrate and I am questioning the power of weapons that were unable to to cause any significant ejecta or molten the ground. The same weapons took down the Naboo Star Fighter which ended up destroying the Trade Federation Battleship. (by whatever means was necessary it still occured)
No vaporization ever occured against the Naboo fighter in space. That is a comprable comparison to the weapons that hulled one Naboo fighter's Engine. All of proves that the weapons are quite terristrial.

There is nothing wrong with observation, James. That is exactly what we are conducting, observation, however your theory uses uncanon data to speculate through extrapolation of numbers. In other words. No matter what the numbers you derive from the canon mean in this case...it is decidedly uncanon to state firepower and power consuptions that haven't been given by canon.

So you're assuming that space in GFFA (Galaxy Far Far Away) is exactly the same as the Milky Way? There is not one bit of canon to support that. Feel free to make your assumption...it is only the wildest speculation you've given thus far, to assume that the film attempted to accurately portray scientific phenomenon inspite of the fact there was no scientific advisor on the staff of the movies nor was the VFX conducted under such constraints. Your assumption is understandable but completely lacking in canon support.

So how much of the Cube did you accurately project was on screen?
You do know Borg cubes are randomized, having no centralized location for anything. You're making another huge leap in assumption because you've only seen a small fraction of the interior of the Borg Cube. And you know that is true, despite knowing how dense a Borge vessel can be. Something is overriding your logic.

Visual evidence proves the hull of a Borg Cube is quite solid and not difused.
Refrence Q Who as the screen magnifies on the regernation of the Cube.
You are wrong again. (Yes, I know you avoid that statement previously. It does not make the fact go away)

I think it would be best, James, if that you can not prove your speculation that you withdraw from the discussion. A comparative analysis is all that is require. You're trapped between canon and science, which are not synonomous to one another. This is a vs debate not a scientific extrapolation. Your dependency on the canon showing acurate scientific revelations is flagrantly dubious at best.

As the comparison has has shown, canon to canon, Star Trek is superior in displays of fire power with the same base lines and variables, not to mention technology. None of your speculation to date has proved otherwise, not the diffused Cube theory nor your larger than 40 meter wide asteroid premise. I'm sorry James you've made very few factual points, but I bid you farewell and good luck against Kittamaru if you decide to continue.

 

This is what I mean about doing your own reserach, James.
It's as canon as canon gets, James. The bulk of the Federation Fleet was created in the 24rd century, according to the simple math of the emergence of one prototype vessel to the next, or the next best. My estimates are conservative. I could claim that the Bulk of the Federation Fleet is still in commision...meaning some 50 to 60 thousand starship level ships ranging from starship scouts to Heavy Cruisers.

The data specificly shows that the ermergence of the Fleet occured after several conflicts, the largest, the Cardassian Federation Wars which occured over 20 years. The Federation was only up to 20,000 buy the begining of the Wars...by the End the Galaxy Class was complete, the registry at 70,000.
That's around 50 thou' right there in only 20 years.

Afterward a period of peace insued. (TNG erra) Federation Production slowed to 300 ships per year.

Then the Dominion War. And once again a similar surge occured. 5,100 ships in just 3 to four years. Concluding the Dominion War. True it would be more definitive if we had the year and emergence of a class after the Dominion War or during. The closes we get is the Prometheus and the Luna Class.

That gives us STILL gives 1037 ships a year. The theory appears sound. But after Voyager the emergence of runnabouts and small independent craft like the Venture Class Scout may ding the projections. I conclude though that in war time these were not priority constructions. Further more before the emergence of these class the numbers were exactly the same even with the lack of runnabouts scouts and fighters being included in NCC's.

 

Hey, I was just making sure I wasn't the ONLY one seeing that scene in such a fashion... the consensus among people that didn't know it was a Trek vs Wars debate (just among friends that liked Star Wars) was that no, Alderran had no shields... the Falcon has Ion and Hyper drives... things of that nature.

Was I wrong on a few points I had made? Yes... but I'll admit those as soon as the admissions of guilt on the points I was correct on are made.

 

The Galaxy Far Far Away is the VERDELIAN galaxy... it's actually stated by Lucas in one of his interviews.

So no, GFFA is NOT Milkey Way

Every logical person I talk to, including many people who like Star Wars far better (and even a few that have watched Star Trek but hate it) have admitted that, short of the Force, Star Trek has an EASY WIN. If we keep Trek's superweapons at bay (Q, DoomsDayMachines, etc) it would be an interesting fight, but Star Wars has nothing, short of SuperLasers and Co-Axial semi-super Lasers, that would even threaten a rek ship... and this is a consensus of, now, over a dozen different people.

Face it... except for a few very rabid pro-wars anti-trek haters... Trek gets the vote every time. If you like big explosions, romance, drama, and annoying golden human relations robots... Star Wars is your thing. If you wish to put biases aside and go with the facts, Trek wins. Every time.

 

Saquist, remember - Runabouts and fighters are generally constructed at smaller starports or in their defensive hanger emplacements. They don't use full sized shipyards to construct them... even the smaller ships are made at separate shipyard docks. You don't REALLY think they'd use a shipyard able to hold a full sized Sovereign to build a Venture, do you?

So I would reckon those ships would not have any effect on production. Hell, we saw Voyager able to create the Delta Flyer... and that thing stood up to unreal amounts of punishment!

 

Love how you leave this out:

Star Wars, is the world defined as by George Lucas. There are three different worlds to the Star Wars franchise. There is his world, which consists of the movies, his six books, and possibly his new TV show coming out. The second is the books, comics, games, and such. Then the last is the world that the fans have, which is their personal world I suppose.

We are talking about George's world, the one he's in charge of. Not some second rate book series and games.

Yes, I suppose those large shockwaves crossing over the planet within seconds, and the mention of 30% of the surface being destroyed is completely irrelevent. Or the lower calculation of reducing said planet to a floating core in space in five hours. Or Garrak's claim about how the Defiant alone has enough firepower to reduce a planet to slag. Or how in The Survivors, the Enterprise D took on a starship with enough firepower to pulverize a planet, or how in Obsession, an antimatter container the size of a bowling ball was capable of blowing half the atmosphere of a planet off, or how Scotty informed planetary leaders in A Taste of Armageddon of how their planet's surface would be destroyed by the Enterprise, or how in Deja Q Riker suggested they blow a moon into harmless chunks to save an entire civilization from it falling on them, and then proceeded to try and push it away with their tractor beam.

Interesting, may I see that soruce? I would very much like to see it for myself.

Wait, what? Where did youo get that number? What site claims this?

...okay, what?

A quote from your very own source contradicts this very claim. Either you didn't read your own material, or you are being dishonest.

Yes, for the purpose of EU.

Actually, it really is. Very much so for an enemy fleet capable of producing hundreds of fighters, runabouts, and Delta Flyers, all shielded, fast, and equipped with phasers and torpedoes.

The idiot who came up with the idea of an exhaust port should be sacked.

Do you have evidence that replicators cannot manufacture protomatter? I've never heard of this.

Eclipse classes are not canon.

As for the Death Star, no, it was not a practicale weapon. It was a weapon of terror whose main purpose was to blow a planet to pieces simply to keep an emipre in line. Anyone who has to resort to a big moon-sized superweapon to destroy a planet is an idiot. First of all, that's far more power than you need to destroy all life on a planet, and thus you waste a ton of energy accomplishing nothing for no paticular reason other than to scare people.

The Death Star was anything but practicle.

The cloak didn't so much as malfunction, so much as the people opperating it tried to shut it down improperly, which set all those bad things in motion.

Two different calculations place the explosion required to destroy such an asteroid around a hundred megatons, and it was stated in the episode that the torpedo should have vaporized the asteroid, and the characters were shocked when it didn't, which led them to discovering that they weren't normal asteroids.

You fail to mention that their photon torpedoes work off of matter/antimatter explosions, and during that episode, it was specifically stated that the antiproton beam of the Doomsday Device had disabled the ship's antimatter, hence why the Enterprise wasn't able to go to warp, and why Kirk was working with two engines, one phaser bank, and neither ship fired a single torpedo.

Using torpedoes would have been about as useful as chucking rocks at its mouth. You'd just be feeding it empty shells, and hence making it stronger.

Not specifically, but it was exceptionally large if I recall.

I find it odd that ships that you think can apparently resist TT level firepower, are threatened by ships whose proton torpedoes appear to have the yield of hand grenades, as seen in Episode I, the Phantom Menace.

Acutally, The Dominion likely had about 10,000 starships at some point, if not a great deal more, given how they were on par with the Federation.

Sacrifice of Angels:

The Federation fleet was made up of elements from two different fleets, and was supposed to have a third element, but it wasn't going to arrive on time, and so they had to go without them. I suspect that given the importance of DS9 to the Dominion, they would have placed an entire fleet to protect it, which is logical given that the whole war hinged on them getting reinforcements from the Gamma Quadrant (or at least in their minds, given Weyoun's rants about how they needed them). Now, the idea of them using more than one fleet is absurd, since doing so would greatly limit their ability to wage war against the Klingons and the Federation. One fleet itself would even seem hard to contemplate, and given how the armada sent to DS9 was supposed to be made of elements, and were supposedly thought to be sufficient to break through the Dominion defensive force and defeat DS9's defenses, I would say that the Federation's own fleet would be about the same size, rounding down to 1,250 ships per fleet. Since the Federation has ten fleets, we would get about 12,500 starships for their entire fleet, although this may be lower, to about 10,000 ships, since it was stated that the Dominion had more ships, so about a 5,000 ship lead is what you would expect, going under the assumption that the Klingons had about 8,000 starships (war with the Cardassians), and the Dominion's combined forces (Noble Dominion ships, ship yards, as well as Cardassian resources) would grant them an exceptionally high number of ships, about 25,000 starships. That would give the Dominion about a 4,500 starship lead, which explains the large threat they would pose to the Alpha and Beta Quadrant. If we assume that the Romulans had about 8,000 starships (they have really big and powerful ships, so logic would place them at lower numbers), that would explain why the Dominion had to resort to pulling the Breen into the war, which being a minor power, likely had about 4,000 - 6,000 starships of their own, but their dampening weapon would have made up for that loss...and did at first.

No I cannot, because it is assumed. The characters, for instance, do not fall through the walls, and there is talk of gravity and electricity and other such things.

Actually, that would be unlikely, unless you wish to suggest that their cubes are open to the space of vaccum, which while it does not appear to bother the Borg, it does bother the humans who we have seen walking around Borg ships. These would likely be sealed at some point, and Best of Both World cubes have since either been upgraded, or apparently retired, as we do not see them after Best of Both Worlds. The later cubes have a more resonable hull design, and can apparently take torpedoes to their bare hull, and keep going.

Yes, the visual evidence where the characters do not die due to lack of air?:bugeye:

Really, despite your own source claiming that there are three different worlds via the words of GEORGE FUCKING LUCAS? Or how you clearly claim that Borg Ships are opened to the vaccum of space, and yet people who are required to breath air, and would likely suffer nasty effecst due to being materalized in a vaccum would likely suffer from a lot of nasty effects? Face it, your entire claim is bull crap. Does the outer hull of BoBW have a layering effect? Yes, that is to say, the hull ends at a deeper point which is not clearly seen from a distance. Why the Borg would have a hull designed that way is curious, but it may be to hide weapons or other such things, as we can clearly see that their weapons seem to come from random places all over the ship, which might mean that some of these lead to shuttle bays, tractor beams, weapon emplacements, as well as other such things. To assume that the ship is open to the vaccum of space, despite the fact that humans seem to appear within such places and do not suffocate, or suffer ungodly amounts of below zero tempatures is very telling in how your scientific methods are applied. Furthermore, not having a sealed ship is stupid...beyond all reason. In order to have a crew live through that, you'd have to force the drones to constantly supply oxygen at a great loss, heat at a great loss, as well as force fields. So either the Borg have an absurd amount of energy to waste, or at some point, those holes close.

Given how stupid it would be to not have an enclosed hull, I would have to say that you're wrong.

 

What flawed arguments? I challenge that assertion!

 

Sardonic, challenge it all you want - Prince_James is all smoke and mirrors...

 

I couldn't let it go unchallenged. It may take time to respond but I don't let stuff slide.

Like the comment you made about the temporal argument. yeah you refuted the 30 year future but what about centuries? Dune has shown that it can have plans that take thousands of years to come into fruition. If anything Dune would wait until the ideal moment to usurp the ST universe... even if it took a thousand years.

I mean the average lifespan for people is over 300 years.

 

...You realize that in about about 700 or so years they'd be on par with the Time Lords don't you?:bugeye:

 

I forgot a bout some of those. Thank you Hellblade.

Look up Turbolaser Commentaries.

Indeed!

No he does not. No where in canon is most of his speculation on Trek supported.

ENTER THE VOICE OF REASON

Any General is bound to ask: Do you have anything in a sub compact?

Ah. Someone read the script.
Finally logic arrives fashionably late.
You see James, If you don't want to talk logical expectations other here will still want to. Despite everything that doesn't "impress" you. If you don't want to face certain realities you might as well withdraw from the thread.

Sincerely
~SaQ

 

This is the most silly statement you've made so far.
What you propose is akin to entertaining the scientific evaluation of a TOM & JERRY CARTOON. Watch them defy gravity, lift objects far in excess of their own size and live despite killing blows. You may proceed with your scientific analysis of this Fantasy World, James, but I'm happny not to be included in it. What a waste good time.

 

ST:TMP asteroid screencaps via Trekcore

movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmp/themotionpicture0511.jpg

movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmp/themotionpicture0512.jpg

movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmp/themotionpicture0513.jpg

movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmp/themotionpicture0514.jpg

movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmp/themotionpicture0514.jpg

movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmp/themotionpicture0516.jpg

our big, glowy photon torp disappears for 2 seconds (according to VLC player, in my copy ripped from VHS) before the asteroid explodes
which points to both a big asteroid and, i think, a fairly long range, considering how bright that torpedo is

 

Only a handful really.

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Ah, well that paticular place is biased, and thus an unreliable source. I'm not going to waste my time disproving the claims of people who have repeatedly lied to others about Lucas Arts canon policy.

I see.

And that's exactly why the Death Star is not practicle. You have to pay a shit load of money just to get it from point A to point B, a ton of money in order to build that core powerful enough to generate that much energy, wasting energy on destroying a planet, and finally a ton of energy and resources in defending that weapon. No one in their right mind would consider that thing a great feat of technology.

Exactly, and for the final nail in the coffin, said cloak was the prototype, not the finished project. The point of field testing would be to hammer out the problems and get it ready for front of the lines production, assuming it worked (which it did).

Of course, the fact that the Romulans have the technology to cloak ships about the size of the Falcon is pretty telling who stands superior to the other in such things.