Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

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Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Uhm... how does striving to follow their programming (making their owners happy) have ANYTHING to do with trying to improve themselves and striving to be more human... I'd LOVE to hear that explanation.
     
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  3. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Okay, one - I have the episode on my computer 1 at one point, they state it deals with high-energy particle physics, and then later he says antimatter... damn inconsistant, but a far cry from actual anti-matter as used in the series normally.

    Two - you're trying to tell me our SSN's fire weapons at an enemy without having a lock? Because they do fire weapons without using active sonar on a regular basis...
     
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  5. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Uhm, hacking a replicator from onboard a ship is a far cry from hacking a ships sensors from another vessel... and they would not have been a match for the Enterprise if not for the fact that A) they got a number of shots off while the Enterprise had her shields DOWN (hence the "shields up" comment) and B) the Enterprise could not bring her weapons fully online because the fake beams were fused on by the attack while the shields were down.
     
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  7. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    WWell for starters the only practical use of this would be in an ambbush, and active sensors are only ever active when there is something of interest and quite frankly just another magnetic field isnt something of interest. The fact is that the federation doesnt scan every lump of rock they pass by.
     
  8. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    And all of this shows the inadequate skill of the enterprise's officers. Any 40k captain would figure out that the only reason why someone would create a hologram distraction is in order to cover an attack which means an IMINENT attack and thus you would raise your fucking shields for it. Yet the enterprise's judgement is so idiotic, they reason that since it is a hologram they should lower their shields even though the ship projecting it could be right fucking behind them firing weapons.
     
  9. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Uhm... dude, here's the thing:

    They were using computer-simulated shields and weapons in the duel... when the warbird appeared, they didn't know it was a hologram. Thus they disengaged the simulated weapons, engaged their real weapons and shields, and prepared to attack... only to realize that the warbird wasn't really there when their targeting computer couldn't get a lock and they couldn't get an aquisition signal back from their comms systems. This gave the Hathaway time to get a number of shots off with their SIMULATED weapons against a supposedly unshielded Enterprise.

    The Enterprise then had to disengage their tactical systems and bring the simulated systems online.

    Now, they could have tried to simply ignore the warbird... problem is, 1) that's a powerful ship and 2) the hathaway had minimal shields an no offensive weapons... thus the Enterprise had to take up a defensive stance to protect it.

    So, in all reality, it was a rather intelligent move...
     
  10. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    Ahhh okay, i thought it was a live fire excerise i was wondering why picard wouldnt have done it.

    P.S. the enterprise averages about a dozen weapons arrays over about a 1 kilometer space, so on average its 12 arrays per kilometer, a 40k battlebarge averages SEVERAL dozen arrays (and by arrays i mean about 20 offensive weapons platforms per array) over just 1 kilometer of it's 6 to 8 kilometer hull.

    So dont dare confuze yourself into believing that you actually have me outgunned.
     
  11. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    Yah but do remember that in the pc games the Imeprial troops were runnign away from either 7 foot tall super muscular aliens or massive tyranids, honestly theyve seen a lot worse things than your ST troops have. And remember that the SM in the pc game, if youve played DWII you had to have noticed by now that about 1 dozen SM can hold off a several hundred creature horde of tyranids. Youve gotta admit the fatc they dont even think about retreating an inch has to be impressive.
     
  12. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Er, if you want to go by individual weapon arrays, the Enterprise has THOUSANDS... a phaser array is hundreds of individual phaser emitters... each one capable of putting out an individual shot. Usually, two fire together to increase the power, but up to six emitters have been seen working to emit a single, powerful beam.

    The Galaxy class has a number of phaser arrays as well:

    That adds up to approximately 13 type X phaser arrays

    And two photon torpedo launchers in service while in connected flight mode.

    You can see from the numbers, those 15 tactical weapons systems are tightly grouped, cover almost all (if not every) weapon arc with redundancy.

    Now, lets take the Defiant class:

    Shorter range than a standard phaser, but it's a dogfighter so we can roll with it

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    Nice, Quantums on this lil badass

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    Only four generators, but with the agility surpassing a modern jetfighter, this ship gets in close under heavy-hitting weapons and bites ya hard.

    Finally, the Defiant has a trick:

    Not bad for such a little ship... now lets take the big badass, the Sovereign:

    2 decks are uninhabitable, serving as "exterior" space of sorts.

    High output phasers, with only two emitters firing able to put out 16MW... nice, but remember the wattage isn't what carries the Phasers destructive power. It's ability to rotate frequencies to attempt to pierce a threats shields is a nice bonus as well.

    Nice torpedo systems, able to lay out a heavy line of fire.

    This is it's big trick - even if the shields fail, it's armor provides pretty good protection even against borg weapons.
     
  13. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    I wouldn't retreat from much of anything if I was wearing powered armor like that... and in DoW2, I have seen SM's retreat actually... I usually play as the Imperial troops because I like their final tank, the BaneBlade

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    Thing is, federation troops would be able to not only hold off a several hundred creature tyranid swarm... they could vaporize it with high-level, wide dispersal phaser blasts covering several hundred square feet with atomic-disintegration level blasts

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    Or, they could just set up force fields and laugh as the Tyranids throw themselves at it vainly

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  14. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    And also remember that the overall power of a ship is directly proportional to how much power the generater well...generates. And that is directly proportional to how much power is needed to run hyerspace engines. 90% of the time the larger the ship the more deadly it is because it requires bigger engines, bigger engines need a bigger power source, and a bigger power source means that when the engines are off there is a shitload of extra power and when in a fire fight all of that power either goes to shields or weapons.

    There are a few obvious rule breakers, the defiant being the most obvious, that thing is tiny yet it boasts destructive capabilities of a ship a few dozen times it's size.

    A ship can have more power even thought it is smaller meaning more power to weapons and shields, but any massive ship will always have an absurd amount of firepower, the base minimum and by bare minimum i mean like a defenseless freighter, has no extra power towards shields and weapons, you cant have less than that amount of power otherwise your engines can't run.

    So there is a minimum to the amount of power a ship can have. Now remember that a battlebarge is 6-8 km long and it's engines run about 3km through the middle of the ship (but no the entire width so its not the entire space) meaning that the power source for it must be incredibly massive, probably the size of one of the Enterprise's necelles. Which means when those engines are off, a battlebarge has an absurd amount of power to pump into shields and weapons.

    The reason why the enterprise won't stand a chance is solely because of the fact a battlebarge can pump so much more power into weapons systems and shield generaters that the enterprise just can't.

    And remember that a battlebarge is a warship so it is built to put out as much power as possible to the weapons and shields which not only means building massive power relays to the weapons and shields from the generater, but also building the most massive generator that can be fit into the ship for weapons. At the most the generator runs about 1km across the ship at the smallest around 150-300 meters, this is my estimation though.
     
  15. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member

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    1,898
    C3PO showed nothing beyond his written programming. Indeed, he hasn't even shown interest in self preservation (it appears that his parts are fully interchangeable with battledroids, making him a dime a dozen, and a self preservation subroutine a waste of time). I find this example of C3PO pretending to be a god laughable. Droids have no concept of the import of religion, it's hardly a difficult task to ask a protocol droid to pretend to be a higher rank.

    R2D2 however has shown some development PAST his programming. R2 is a maintenance and navigation droid, but has actually fought, defended and even shown hints of emotion (compassion for Leia, the cute-bot annoyance that viewers enjoy, righteous indignation). This is superior to C3PO because emotive mimicry is hard-coded in C3PO, while R2 units appear to be emotionless by and large.

    The difference between Data and R2D2 is that Data actually develops an interest in approaching and honing human behaviour himself, rather than R2D2's eventual evolution due to environmental catalysts. A small but vital difference between the intelligences of the two machines.
     
  16. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    I think we already discussed the fact that the only real force field for personel there is was oen the size of a half dollar used by worf. And also, the tyranids solved the problem of personal shields a long time ago, what do you think eldar, and space marine captains use?
     
  17. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    hey enterprise long time no see.
     
  18. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Mate, I hate to let you down... raw power is nothing. Look at all the times in history raw power lost...

    Nazi Germany in WW2...
    Japanese Navy at Battle of Midway...
    MOAB vs Bunker Busters...
    M16A2 vs 30-06...

    it's how you impliment that power... it's how you use it. The Trek phaser takes your own armor and turns it against you. It doesn't try to blow thru you... rather, it makes your own armor explode.
     
  19. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    an interest? Come ON man... Data and Tasha Yar got it ON! They did the verticle electric slide! Data had SEX! What robot in Star Wars can claim THAT?
     
  20. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    I think they use a variation of warp shielding, not actual area-denial shields like we've seen used in Trek by a number of people

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    Yes, it takes time to set up, but if you're on a defensive front, you have the time to do so

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  21. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    So far as I know, there is no standard size for a chaos fleet - their size varies greatly depending on how many units an individual chaos warlord is able to bring together under his leadership. But since during the great heresy about half of the ships in the imperial fleet went over to chaos, we can assume that their numbers are pretty large. That was part of the reason the marines, imperial army, and imperial navy were broken up and made into separate organizations; before the heresy the primarchs were in command of everything, including the space fleet, so when they went rogue they were able to take huge numbers of ships with them.

    Of course, the imperial fleet was smaller then, and many of them have surely been destroyed since. But we also know that the forces of chaos have their own ship-building facilities inside the eye of terror, so its unclear how much they may have added to their numbers. The background fluff says that the forces of chaos have mounted "many millions" of attacks over the millennia, so if we assume that they lost only a few ships per attack, they must have at least had millions to start with.

    Now what, exactly, do you think is the "problem"?
     
  22. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    Im not talking about power as in like destructive power, im talking about power as in energy and electricity, what powers weapons.
     
  23. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    But energy and electricity =/= destructive force... and larger generators aren't necessarily better...

    if I'm not mistaken, you're trying to say because WH40K has more space for larger generators, they can output more power than a Federation starship and that, because of this, they can be more destructive.

    That straight up isn't true... a great example of it:

    Compare my 1990 Nissan Pathfinder to my Fiance's 2001 Subaru Legacy GT Limited:

    Pathy - The 3.0 L (2960 cc) VG30E produced 153 hp (114 kW) and 182 ft·lbf (247 N·m). Bore is 3.43 in (87 mm) and stroke is 3.27 in (83 mm). - this engine could propel my truck to a top safe speed of 100 MPH... I've hit 120 but that's pushing the engine dangerously close to overload.

    Legacy GT - 2,458 cc 2.5 liters 4 horizontal engine with 99.5 mm bore, 79 mm stroke, 9.7 compression ratio, overhead cam and four valves per cylinder - Power: SAE and 123 kW , 165 HP @ 5,600 rpm; 166 ft lb , 225 Nm @ 4,000 rpm. This little engine, while MUCH smaller than the VG30E in both physical size and bore, puts out 13 more horsepower and only 24 less ft-lb of torque...

    The Pathy's engine is big and sturdy and made to last... but the legacy's is light aluminium and will last just as long. It's also not as big as the pathfinder's engine...

    Technology advances... and part of that advancement is shrinking down tech...
     
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