Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

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Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    Congratulations you have just lost all your remaining credibility. YAY! Your priize is the ignomy of being known as a thundering moron. Prizes are non transferable.
     
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  3. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    YOU FUCKING TWIT!

    The BORG weren't going to use it! It was the Federation! They DIDN'T use it because it would have OBLITERATED the Sol system!

    God... you ARE completely stupid aren't you? Christ... it's because of people like you that humanity should need a LICENSE to fucking reproduce! But NO! They let ANY RANDOM BIMBO AND SHITHEAD FUCK LIKE DEER GOING THROUGH RUT!
     
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  5. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Congratulations! You never HAD any credibility because you have the analytical capacity of a melted transistor radio! You may go die at your soonest conveiniance and remove yourself from our frustrations!
     
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  7. Lord Vasago bcd Registered Senior Member

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    A these people getting on eachtothers nerves. Star Trek vs Star Wars.
    When these universes would collide the Jedi and the Sith would forceen this long before it happed and would be ready before the Star Trek universe would known wha hit the fan. therefore their woudn't be a war at al.

    when Jedi and Sith would work together the federation klingon vulcan ferengi borg and al the rest would be lost. and then there are still the wookies Kamino's Gungans Hutt's to back the Jedi and Sith up.
     
  8. Saquist Banned Banned

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    3,256
    That would seem to suggest that Speices 8472 was capable of bing destroyed by conventional weaponry and that was never shown...Infact...we never even see a damaged bioship in the series untill Voyager takes one out.

    See the flaw in your logic?

    Janeway and Tuvok didn't express concern over the spread of Nanites they expressed concern with the war head yield it was to much. To much Firepower. The Nanites were indiscriminate...they weren't worried about them getting loose on the ship they only attacked species 8472
     
  9. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Rofl, right. The Sith are gone, and the only real jedi is Luke... next?
     
  10. FoolFromHell Photons be Free. Registered Senior Member

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    421
    Ok... Star Trek wins obviously because...

    #1 The A-Wing hit the bridge of the Executor, right?
    #2 If simple mass (not energy) could get through the "awesome" shields of the Executor since the rebels cant possible destroy its shields! Its so big!, obviously their shields are worthless...
    #3 Star Trek cross-section books etc with "facts" showing that the ISDs shoot at 10+ Gigatons/ turret are WRONG. They inflate the numbers to look powerful.
    A 10 Gigaton blast hitting a planet would cause a TREMENDOUS EXPLOSION. Considering that the ISD has more than one turret, supposedly, 300 gigatons+ / volley.
    The Star Wars universe has barely evolved in te 4000 Years between Kotor and the Galactic Empire. Thus, Leviathan from Kotor is a reasonable measure of a *weak* starship. no? Thus, the explosions are not nearly even the size of the simple by comparison, Tsar Bomba, a Soviet Bomb, that measures 50 megatons *only* compared to over 300 Gigatons.
    The Tsar Bomba at video.google.com is available.

    Go to Google Maps @ 73.85,54.5
    The Aftermath is the aftermath 30 odd years later.
    Considering that the Dinosaur Destruction asteroid was "only" 10 gigatons, a stray shot from ONE laser shot would literally destroy the entire surface of the planet. And, would obviously destroy any ship the second the shields go down. Unfortunately, in Episode VI, the Rebel ships manage to take down only the shield generator of the executor and NOTHING ELSE. Not a HUGE FIREBALL THE SIZE OF ASIA. See that sphere exploding before the Executor is destroyed?
    Answer me this. Please.

    Wont let me post links for some reason...

    Wow, cant believe this thread has continued for over a year.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2007
  11. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Weren't you watching the movie. The Executor had been under heavy direct fire for a considerable amount of time. Then the fleet concentrated fire on the Executor for several minutes before the BRIDGE shields failed. The A-Wing only had to crash through Transparisteel roughly six inches thick. Given the weight of the craft, speed and shape it was a relatively easy process with the shields out.


    First of all the Volley of the sixteen cannons on an Acclamator class starship is 200 gigatons. Meaning 12.5 gigatons each. An ISD carries 60 said cannons for a total firepower of 750 gigatons.



    You do realize that trying to compare the effects of a beam and bomb are illogical? One is focused realease of energy while the other is just massive blast of the same kind. Second is the difference in materials. A beam dumps most of it energy in one direction, while a bomb spread it in every direction making it more spectacular. You are making an argument equivalent to "Well a bolt of lightning can destroy blow a tree limb off, but so can a quarter stick of dynamite." If the cannon was used against shielded ships or denser rock the visiable effect would be even less impressive




    Oh god, you are a moron. A 10 km diameter asteroid impacting earth at a 20-30 degree angle at 100,000 km/h would have an effect roughly equal to 385,388,645 megatons. That is the K_T Asteroid event you describe. As you can see it is 385,388.6 gigatons MUCH more powerful than a Turbolaser

    http://www.classzone.com/books/earth_science/terc/content/investigations/es2506/es2506page08.cfm




    Secondly, the ships are designed to take that level of firepower for brief amounts of time. And the shots to the SENSOR DOME, were made by a fighter, not a capital ship. So your argument is moot. And yes they are SENSOR DOMES as voiced by EU, and no Video and Computer Games are not considered canon if disputed by higher canon.
     
  12. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Ignore Scott, he is our resident looney.

    Don't worry Scotty boy, they nice young men in their clean white coats are on their way

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  13. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    Pure ad hominem attack. You are getting lazy in your efforts again.
     
  14. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    No, I'm just getting tired of dealing with your brand of scum- that is, I tire of people who never learn. You were soundly beaten using math, logic, both cannon AND your stupid noncannon sources, and yet you still persist.

    I must give you this... you're consistant.

    Another reason Trek > Wars? Sex- you know damn well Riker and Kirk got it on with nearly every alien chick they met

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  15. FoolFromHell Photons be Free. Registered Senior Member

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    421
    Oh, so the rebel ships managed to destroy the Executor's shields?
    If they did, wouldn't one "200+ Gigaton" blast destroy it? Its just matter anyway. Right?
    First of all, Star Wars ships dont have shields on the type that Trek does. If they did, then you would see some interference when attacked. You notice how in the fight sequence, there are explosions and not shields dispersing? How come the bombs from the Tie Bombers in Ep5 didnt destroy the asteroid? The Asteroid is only a huge rock, right? And why didnt the AT-AT lasers make a HUGE EXPLOSION? Last I checked, the shields the type of the Gungans, the only noticeable kind, couldn't deflect matter. That means photon torpedoes would go through it easier than anything else.


    So why a death star? Wouldnt a 750Gigaton charge, even if pointed downward, make more of an impact than just a building destroyed like in Taris? Or hitting the Tantive IV in Episode 4?

    Ok then. Focused release of energy. That doesnt stop the fact that it even a 200 gigaton shot cant destroy an unshielded rebel Mon Calamari Cruiser in one shot.
    A 200 Gigaton shot should make a HUGE CRATER IN THE DEATH STAR but no such luck.



    So a fighter itself can have that much firepower?
    Then why need capital ships if fighters have firepower in the gigatons?
    If you find something that is not conforming to your view of "canon" you dismiss it? Whats the damned deal with that?

    Also, I would like to add. In Episode 1 (You cant dispute this is not cannon) the Naboo Fighters killing the Droidkas did NOT HAVE FIREPOWER IN THE GIGATONS OR EVEN MEGATONS. They made a small pockmark in the hanger bay. That, coupled with the bombers bombing the asteroid from Ep5, is absolute proof that fighters dont have that much firepower.
    Star Wars shields are different than Star Treks shields as I have demonstrated. ST shields have defenses against lasers. There is no proof that SW shields can defend against matter. The A-Wing on the Executor and the droids passing through the Gungan shield are proof that matter is impervious to the shields. The Photon Torpedos are MATTER. Plus, the SW ships cant fire in hyperspace and take time to jump. How will they target ST ships that can run circles aroudn them at Warp 2 and shoot at the same time? SW ships cant shoot as far as 30,000 KM and Voyager itself, not a strong ship by Federation standards, can shoot the Equinox's warp nacelles at that distance. Plus, there are Borg. The Borg may lose 1 or 2 ship to the ISDs, but they will adapt. Once they adapt, they will know to try to evade ISD fire and will be IMMUNE TO THE TURBOLASERS. The ST shields need to be breached by say, the Defiant, which is matter, and they can automatically beam the commander and the bridge crew into the vacuum of space. If the Emperor/ Vader can prevent this, they can only be in one ship at a time...
    Species 8472 had a defense against Borg technology. They were from Fluidic Subspace and could deflect any attempts to destroy it by having the exact countermeasures to defend themselves.
    Plus, since it is Universe vs. Universe, Soran's device, which is very small, can be but on even Federation Fighters (From DS9, yes they exist), and can destroy entire suns. Take that, Sun Crusher...
    SW uses Hyperspace routes. The Federation can make cloaking, self-replicating, minefields on those routes that the SW ships cant defend against. Plus, if the Death Star is standing there, the Federation can come at it at Warp 9.975+ and shoot a heavy projectile. A Heavy Projectile weapon, traveling at that speed? It would be devastating and teh Empire takes YEARS to build each Death Star.

    The Stormtroopers cant fire worth ****. The Klingons or Borg or even Federation can take them down easily!
    TIE fighters cant do anything against the Enterprise due to their size.
    The "200 Gigaton" figures from the cross section books, etc. are inflated to make everything look strong. 200 Gigatons would require so much energy, its not feasible. Plus, that is NOT CANNON. Using just movies and the TV shows, ST would win hands down. Lucas never signed those cross-section books and technical manuals and even the Dark Empire, etc. series
    Even without Q, the ST universe would win hands down. Whats a Jedi gonna do if they are beamed into a vacuum?
    Plus, there is one defense nobody thought about. You line all the decks of the Fed ships with holo-emitters and turn off safety protocols and them keep a continuous supply of troops etc.. The Imperials will never board a Federations ship.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2007
  16. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Thank you, the contest is over. Star Trek Wins yet again. Scott is in a mental institution where he belongs.
     
  17. temur man of no words Registered Senior Member

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    1,330
    No, Star Wars always won!
     
  18. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Not in the end- the Rebels and Alliance (Federation, Klingons, Romulans, etc) would make an alliance and utterly rape the Galactic Empire
     
  19. temur man of no words Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,330
    No! If Sith and Jedi are united nothing can stop them!
     
  20. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Yes, with over fifteen minutes of intense close range battle. Not to mention several minutes of concentrated firepower.

    Not all matter reacts the same way to a blast. If the material has a high specific heat, extreme melting point, or just nonconductive the effects of a 12.5 gigaton blast would be less impressive looking that one would hope.

    Using the argument that matter is matter and is all easily destoyed is a fallacy you shoul rid your self of. Take Graphite and Diamond, two minerals made almost exclusively from Carbon, yet yopu would not say that hwat could break graphite could also break diamond.

    Correcting for spelling error so that it reads. "First of all Star Wars ships don't have the shields of the type used in Star Trek." I would agree. Star Wars shields are vastly superior. Instead of projecting shiled that extends 50 meters from the hull, Star Wars produces one that extends a meter or two. Secondly, Star Wars shields have a much greater energy dissipation level. Third, Star Wars shields do not seem to operate on a frequency, there is not hole through which an enemy can slip a little damage through.

    Why should Shield Interaction neccessary be visible? Why would the obviously more intelligent engineers of Star Wars design shields to emit absorbed energies into the UV or berhaps even Gamma spectrums instead of photons? Or more interesting given their comple mastery of Anti gravity and spatial manipulation, why not just fold the beam back on itself to cuase the explosions you see.


    You are assuming that they would send TIE bombers out bomb that powerful when they are trying to CAPTURE the Millinem Falcon. You are also assuming a TIE fighter has the fire power of a Star Desgtroyer. Coupled with my Matter explnation above, you should be getting the point about now.

    Again you are assuming AT-AT have ISD level weaponry. Since Infantry is the arm of restraint why would you give them Gigaton level weapons? Come one, think man.

    Actually other visible kinds were Fighter shields in and Atmosphere, Droideka shields, and Ray shielding in atmosphere. You'll notice that Anakin and Obi-Wan did not try to walk through the Ray shielding, and neither did the Federation tanks just drive thru. So obviously they have some effec t on matter. Finally a Photon Torpedo is energy shielded itself and coming in fast enough to effect by Ray shields.

    Well, first of all 750 gigatons is from all sixty canons at once from one of the most impressive starships SW has to offer. Second given the building material used by SW cultures it is possible that 12.5 gigatons is needed to destroy a building of said size. The Tantive IV was finally taken down by a lucky shot to her main reactor with a 12.5 gigaton weapon shattering her shield and severely damaging her, it is of note that she had been under fire for several minutes.

    As for the need of a Death Star, one can see that even 300,000 gigatons plus does not destroy a planet, even if said planet does not have Planetary shields. The Emperor was making a statement of power. His little project could destroy a planet even when it's defenses were active. It was the ultimate 'Big Stick'



    See argument above.

    First of all A fighter does have some Gigaton level firepower, most proton torpedoes, but the rest of their arsenal is only in the megatons. However one can clearly extrapolate that I was mentioning Captial level ships, so this is just a strawman response from you.

    Straw man.

    Hello, I am only going with the order of canon sent down from one high. Movies is first, EU is second, computer games is not even part of the list.

    Acutally all this proves is that fighters have adjustable weaponry. I mean come on. Wouldn't Artoo turn down power to the blasters to save the lives of his friends in the Hangar? Would Vader order the fighters to carry less powerful concussion bombs since he wants the crew of the Falcon alive?


    No, I demonstrated, you added some input, but missed some of the more important things.

    They may have Defenses agains rinky dink 5 megawatt lasers, but lasers that produce more output than 150 warp cores? I think not.

    You of course ignore that the Executor Bridge shields were down. That the Fed tanks did not enter the battlefield untill the Gungan shield is down and most damning Episode 3 where shields not only held Air inside a ship, but Jedi in a bubble and Lava from destroying a mining facility


    First off even if a Photon Torpedo is matter, it is shielded matter travelling at nearly light, so by all appearances it will impact Ray Shielding, at the very least Particle shielding will protect a ship, especially from weak ass 64 megaton weapons. Second standard ST tactics are close to short range and brawl it out. Only the Defiant class fights differently. Finally will ST ships be scurrying about as ISD are firing on population centers of homeworlds, or will they try to make themselves more inviting targets in attempts to save lives.


    The Borg have shown no ability to become Immune to any attack. As proved by the series and movie they become more resistant. Why else would 24 Federation vessels have had a single cube on the ropes before the Enterprise E had ever gotten there? Now takes a ship that has the firepower of almost a Thousand Sovereign class starships (without factoring in fighters, strike cruisers, ion canons, or heavy Concussion missiles) against a Cube that can't even handle 24 ships, sorry, no contest, the Borg are extinct.


    Hello, You are trying to breah a sheild that extends only a meter at best from the ship. Second you are assuming that the ISD will not be running scrambling equipment and will not be firing for the 15 second that the Defiant needs to lock on and transport. This is not a viable tactic, in any sense of the term.

    Okay, Species 8472 will not even enter the combat, in fact considering that the SW plans to take out the Borg and Federation they would probably help.

    Sorry, only Soren had it and he's dead. Just like Genisis device. The genius behind it is gone. Remember, canon.


    First of all there are Major routes only. Everything else is bush pilot like. However ST would need to know that Hyperdrive can be affected by Gravity shadows. Then they would need to make mines that produce adequate gravity. Third they have to try to get anywhere important in SW galaxy, which could take centuries by warp.

    Heavy Projectile will not work, once outside the Warp field the weapon drops to sublight speed. Secoindly targets that would make the best targets are infact so heavily defended you could drop the asteroid from Armageddon on them and the result would be a fiery explosion, asteroid dust, and lot of piussed off citizen that you interru[pted the sleep off.

    Finally the second Seath Star was not started until Vader reported he lost Luke on Bespin and from that moment untuil opening crawl of ROTJ is six months.

    Actually, if you notice the only times they are inept is under orders to let them go, ANH and ESB. Meanwhile Riker and Worf could hit a big as life Reman not 10 meters away strolling out into the hall way.

    Bogus argument. If size was the argument SW wins hands down as they have the biggest vessels by far.

    Lucas did sign the ICS biooks jackhole. He personally recruited the writer and went over what the man said. It is Canon and your opinion is worth less than nothing. Oh and BTW the ESB asteroid scene trumps anything ST ever did. Even if you go by movies vs TV and movies, SW wins.


    You are assuming that A a ST vessel gets close enough, B stops moving, C lowers it shields and the a SW vessel A Stops moving, B Lowers a Shield, C Doesn't fire, and D isn't running any ECM.

    how does this work when the main power is out due to massive damage?
     
  21. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Thank you Scott for proving my point that you are looney.

    You contradicted yourself in every aspect flawlessly- if Star Wars armor is incapable of protecting from a small ship hitting it, yet can withstand the blow from a "super power Las weapon" then their weapons must REALLY suck.

    Star Trek armor, especaily Ablative Armor, is used in place of shielding.

    Trek transporters can easily beam thru Wars shields as they only have one harmonic (as is proven by the fact they NEVER change the shield harmonics)

    Wars ships would never have the chance to harm the hull of a Trek ship. That's because, by your OWN reasoning, their weapons haven't the firepower to breach a weak, 6 inch UNarmored hull, much less powerful shielding.
     
  22. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    Whatever floats your boat I guess.

    Where did a small ship hit the ARMOR? I saw a small ship hit a viewing window, but not ARMOR.


    Ablative armor barely protects against a few phaser shots. How iis it going to protect against a 12.5 gigaton cannon.

    That supposes they need harmonics. Secondly it supposes that Transporters can beam trhough Durarmor or in the presence of Heavy sensor interference.

    Excuse me? Where did you see that? The Hull of ISD is METERS thick and made of material much more advanced that ST vessels. And I said they can survive limited amounts of fire form 12.5 gigaton weapons, which is canon. That mean Their armor is superior to anyarmor that the races of ST have.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2007
  23. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    You said yourself it was 6 inches thick armor on the bridge... that is pathetic. The bridge should have the heaviest armor (in star trek the bridge area has secondary shields for many races and those that don't have much stronger frontal shields)

    You should be a politician... you're a good liar and are even better at trying to confuse people.
     
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