Man Beheads Wife in 'Honor' Killing

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by jessiej920, Feb 19, 2009.

  1. Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    Of course. If your side does it, it's ok because it's traditional and cultural. But the other side does the exact same thing and it's evil and bad.

    I have read many many books on the subject and every single one of them has one resounding message. Owning another human being is probably one of the worst of the worst when it comes to acts that are, by their very nature, immoral. You can have them serve in the military and attain high military honour, but those individuals were never free. Nor were the men, women and children who were captured in raids and shipped back to the ME to be slaves. Lopping off a slave's gonads and forcing women into sexual slavery is not better than what the slaves had to suffer in other parts of the world. Just because some were put into military service does not take away from the very simple fact that they would not have gone into said military service if they were not slaves and saw it as a way out of servitude to their masters... Those who were put to work in the salt mines in the Sahara for example, barely lived past 5 years in captivity due to the horrendous work they were forced to do, vastly different to those who worked in the domestic market. The same applies to those who were put to work in the plantations... Just like house slaves in the US were treated better than those put to work in the fields..

    Slavery is slavery, no matter how much you try to pretty it up by saying that they blended in with the natives more in the ME. It cannot be condoned or excused away.

    Gitmo is a completely different animal and subject.
     
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  3. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Because POWs are different when under Islam and under the West?
     
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  5. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    How about the Quran as a source?

    * 4:36 "(Show) kindness unto parents, and unto near kindred, and orphans, and the needy, and unto the neighbour who is of kin (unto you) and the neighbour who is not of kin, and the fellow-traveller and the wayfarer and (the slaves) whom your right hands possess."

    * 4:92 "It is not for a believer to kill a believer unless (it be) by mistake. He who hath killed a believer by mistake must set free a believing slave, and pay the blood- money to the family of the slain, unless they remit it as a charity. If he (the victim) be of a people hostile unto you, and he is a believer, then (the penance is) to set free a believing slave."

    * 23:5-6 "And who guard their modesty - Save from their wives or the (slaves) that their right hands possess."

    * 24:31 "And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters' sons, or their women, or their slaves."

    * 24:58 "O ye who believe! Let your slaves, and those of you who have not come to puberty, ask leave of you at three times (before they come into your presence)."

    * 33:25-26 "Allah repulsed the disbelievers in their wrath; they gained no good. Allah averted their attack from the believers. Allah is ever Strong, Mighty. And He brought those of the People of the Scripture who supported them down from their strongholds, and cast panic into their hearts. Some ye slew, and ye made captive some.

    * 33:50 "O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war."

    * 33:55 "It is no sin for them (thy wives) to converse freely) with their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or the sons of their sisters or of their own women, or their slaves."
     
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  7. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    It shows that servants should be treated well. ie employees.

    You have a problem with that?

    Some of the translations are downright sloppy

    e.g.

    [33:50] O prophet, we made lawful for you your wives to whom you have paid their due dowry, or what you already have, as granted to you by God. Also lawful for you in marriage are the daughters of your father's brothers, the daughters of your father's sisters, the daughters of your mother's brothers, the daughters of your mother's sisters, who have emigrated with you. Also, if a believing woman gave herself to the prophet - by forfeiting the dowry - the prophet may marry her without a dowry, if he so wishes. However, her forfeiting of the dowry applies only to the prophet, and not to the other believers. We have already decreed their rights in regard to their spouses or what they already have. This is to spare you any embarrassment. God is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
     
  8. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    20,855
    Since when did the word "slaves" become "servants/employees"?

    You are able to read the word "slaves" are you not?
     
  9. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    yeah like Abd-ullah, Abd-ul Gaffar, Abd-ul Hamid, Abd-ul Qadir. etc.

    Abd = servant of, one of the most common prefixes in Muslim names.
     
  10. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Another excuse for your lies?
     
  11. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    20,855
    So, you'll stoop to the lowest levels of lying?
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    You can gauge the difference yourself, if you care to. Its as simple as opening a Quran and getting a dictionary. Why do you always post part of a verse? Where exactly are you getting these "translations"?

    Easy enough to check, aint it?

    http://dictionary.babylon.com/Abdul
     
  13. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Quick, find any excuse at all to deflect from getting caught lying!!!
     
  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    72,825
    Is that what you're doing?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  15. Bells Staff Member

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    The Muslims did also..

    I would suggest you try and get a copy of "Race and Slavery in the Middle East" by Bernard Lewis, who gives very detailed findings of research into slavery and its history and origins, especially in the Middle East.

    They were quite far reaching.
     
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Bernard Lewis the Zionist? Who changed his stance on history over Israel?

    http://www.counterpunch.org/alam06282003.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Lewis

     
  17. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    "However, since if a non-Muslim population refuses to adopt Islam or pay the Jizya protection/subjugation tax, that population is considered to be at war with the Muslim "ummah" and therefore it becomes legal under Islamic law to take slaves from that non-Muslim population."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade
     
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Oh look, more ridiculous statements.

    Lets change that to: However, if a Muslim subject refuses to follow the laws of the country he is residing in and does not pay tax, he goes to prison and works for 50 cents an hour doing prison work. This is legal under the country's laws!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    oooh the horrors :runaway:
     
  19. Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    You're saying he is wrong about the Muslim slave trade?

    He might be a zionist, but what he has written about the slave trade in the Islamic empire of the past and somewhat of the present is fairly accurate. He is more flattering than most are towards slavery in Islam.
     
  20. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    72,825
    Oh please, his area of expertise is Ottoman history. Thats all.

    How do you gauge his "accuracy"?

    Missed this. The Muslims went to Slavic lands and captured Europeans?
     
  21. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    20,855
    Sam believes slavery is the same as being gainfully employed and that if you don't want to be a Muslim, you can be an "employee."

    Of course, only if she is the "employer."
     
  22. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    No abd means "servant of". Which begs the question. Why is the word translated as slaves in your translations?
     
  23. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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