News from Gaza Part 2

Discussion in 'The Cesspool' started by S.A.M., Nov 20, 2008.

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  1. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    heh. Than stop trying to build em
     
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  3. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Its the people who think we should be "like" the west, who want to build them. It may be a good idea for everyone to get one, just so we can move beyond it
     
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  5. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    heh, oh the hypocracy. Your like a little kid who sees their friend has an awesome toy, "i dont want it, it's not that much fun, it'll probably break, but mommy, can i have one,not that i need it"
     
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  7. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    We now have a prime example of what happens to a Muslim who speaks out, Zakaryia speaks out and SAM tries to bury Him verbally.

    Yes S.A.M. panic is very enlightening.
     
  8. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    angelic chorsu*
     
  9. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Not at all. I am a pragmatist. I see that the longest surviving societies are those that eschew guns in favor of cohabitation. The empire builders come and the empire builders go. I think Muslims should do what they do best. Build close families and cohesive societies. Thats what will last. Cultures like the current one in the west are attractive and we can take advantage of them. But they are unsustainable. How old is Israel? 60 years? Already falling apart as a society. How old is the US? 200 years? going into decline. They can still recover, but do they know what the right choices are? Its cultures that have survived for thousands of years that know what works and that is why I don't see China, India, Persia or the Arabs going for global domination. Thats the kind of thing that people aim for when they want to destroy their society. Name one empire that has survived its implosion.

    Its why Muslims should avoid any sort of global community. We are fine as we are, disparate brothers of the same family.
     
  10. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    Than stop firing fucking rockets into the west, and trying to nuke us, and mind your own fucking business!
     
  11. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Ah well, you did want to liberate the Arabs and westernise them. As they say, be careful what you wish for, for you may get it.
     
  12. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    Are u joking? We helped you guys get rid of the communists dumbass. Where the hell do you think Al Qaeda got outdated US weapons?
     
  13. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    And now you have the Taliban in Afghanistan and the Islamic jihad in Gaza.
     
  14. Zakariya04 and it was Valued Senior Member

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    last time i looked the muslim world was in a mess......................
     
  15. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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  16. Zakariya04 and it was Valued Senior Member

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    Buffalo,

    actually discussion is good as banging ideas around can help you learn and move forward..........

    SAM always makes valid points in my opinion and it would be very arrogant of me to discredit her. Discussion with whoever regardless of whetehr they agree with you is sucha great way of learning!!
     
  17. Zakariya04 and it was Valued Senior Member

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    what??????
    or r u still unsure about the strength of the US economy
     
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    So your suggestion is we should become like the Americans? Or Israelis? And that will make it all better? We can go around bombing people who disagree with us? Instead of just talking to one another?

    What road do you see educated Muslims taking?
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2009
  19. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    I do not agree. There are many examples where neither side has "won." For three relatively recent examples:

    (1) South and North Korea are still at war, but the south sends food aid and tourist into the North and is expecting to have the country reunified some day. The North appears to be destroying its nuclear weapon program.

    (2) East Germany is now part of Germany and growing more prosperous.

    (3)* The US neither lost nor won in Vietnam and is now building factories there and sending tourists. etc.

    I do however agree that defense for all the future is not a workable plan. The whole idea, as I have several times stated, is to let a generation or two live and die without increasing the mutual and extreme hatred every year. I.e. provide a period for the hawks on both sides to all die - they are too sure that god is on their side, their side is for peace with dignity and security and only blocked by the other side, that their side never did any wrong, it only tried as best as it could to force the other to be peace loving and just, etc.

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    Now that I have answered you, will you suggest a reason why Israel does not protect ALL of its citizens from the Gaza rockets? (Other than the only and shameful reason I have been able to think of.)

    Summary: For there to ever be REAL peace, two states trading and helping each other to prosper, etc. many now living on both sides must die OF OLD AGE IN THEIR BEDS. My plan is only a way for this to be possible - not a permanent solution.
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    * I tend to think the US lost the Vietman War I.e. the U.S. failed both to establish the government it supported and to get control of the Gulf of Tomkin oil (the real cause for the war) - China will help Vietman recover it and get 40%, as I recall, of the production.) but certainly the US was not, in your words the enemy: "defeat{ed} on his own ground."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2009
  20. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    You already are like the Americans and Israelis. What is this myth of Muslim perfection? You are only human and your governments can be just as aggressive as any regime in history.
     
  21. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Attempted murder is just as bad as successful murder. Billion dollar pie in the sky defense systems are economically ruinous.

    Palestinians need to unify under one government and end terrorism, Israel should reel in it's settlers, get out of the West Bank and negotiate a two-state agreement. We all know what needs to happen, what is lacking is a credible third party (US) to mediate between them. Perhaps Hillary can be that.
     
  22. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Another un supported assertion.

    As best as I can estimate, The plan I suggested would cost less than ONLY the tanks now in Gaza - not to mention the F-16 and their missiles and pilot training. That has been a very costly burden on Israel, (making a huge per capita debt and a constant need for financial aid from abroad) but not "ruinous."

    It certainly is not "pie in the sky" - Israel and more than 30 other nations has used ALL COMPONENTS of my plan -the mine fields, the CIWS,* attack trained dogs, and radar network controlled counter battery artillery fire for more than 40 years! The computers to process the information**, control the counter fire etc, are 10,000 times faster than when first used for this task and at least 100 times cheaper. Stop making such silly false assertions.

    I am suggesting a cheaper plan, which can save almost, if not all, Israelis now killed and possibly lead to real peace in a generation or two - see my post 746 reply to Buffalo's false assertion in post 745.
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    *Or the equivalent multi-barrel rapid fire guns that the USSR supplied to many. I am sure Chinese ships have this last ditch self defense system also but do not know its origins (copied from Russian ones, initially, but probably now basically an "all Chinese design.")

    ** The computer used for counter fire control in WWI and in early in WWII was cheaper (a human brain) - Back then radar did not yet exist so a trained man with tubes in his ears to bring the sounds from two acoustic pick-up disks about 5 meters apart used the arrival time delay to locate at least the direction from which the enemy was firing. That BTW is the main way you localize the location of a sound source, but of course the time difference to each ear is much smaller so you are not as accurate as the trained man was. The intensity of the sound gave an indication of the distance, but usually triangulation with two separated trained observers was used. Compare to modern processing a very slow process, but back then the guns did not move quickly after firing ("Shoot and scoot" with mobile artillery, GPS etc. is a relative recent advance, which only the Israelis have.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2009
  23. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    Hamas Useful Tool for Iran

    Yes, a assessment from Tehran, the Palestinians have been PWND by the Iranians, used as a distraction for the people of Iran to hide Iran's own problems, and as a tool to negotiate with Washington

    Iran is in cynical political ploy, in dealing with Obama, using the suffering of the People of Gaza, and Gaza, as a bargaining chip, and to strengthen their own standing in the Middle East as a Regional Power.

    Muslim Brotherhood in action.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/world/middleeast/13iran.html

    While the fighting continues in Gaza and negotiations for a cease-fire take place in Egypt, officials in Iran are treading carefully because they, too, have a great deal at stake. Iran is trying to position itself as the regional superpower, while also trying to generate maximum leverage before expected talks with the incoming Obama administration.

    Iran’s leaders are leery of siding publicly with Hamas because of the potential consequences of an Israeli victory. A Hamas defeat by Israel would deprive Iran not only of a valuable proxy force on the border with Israel but of a trump card to play with Washington, and it would further alienate it from the leadership of Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia.

    “Iran wants to sit at the negotiating table with Obama with all the cards of the region in hand: Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq, the relationship with Syria,” said Mustafa el-Labbad, an Iranian expert based in Cairo. “They are also being smart. They’re trying not to antagonize the U.S. very much, but with the Arabs they are going at it very hard, very roughly.”

    “Hamas is a very practical and useful tool for Iran, not an ideological one at all,” said Saeed Leylaz, an economist and political commentator in Tehran. “It is a very good tool for Iran, especially in its dealings with the U.S. What is happening right now in Gaza has made it easier for Iran to promote anti-U.S. feelings among Muslims"

    Iran’s policy toward Hamas and the Gaza fighting is also related to the country’s own difficult domestic situation. Iran’s economy is struggling, weighed down by rampant inflation and undermined by the precipitous drop in oil prices. The Gaza fighting served as a useful distraction from local problems, but it also threatened to backfire on the state if the public perceived that the country’s now scarce resources were being used to help anyone other than Iranians themselves.

    “Iran is going through a very sensitive internal situation,” said Farzaneh Roostai, the foreign editor of the daily newspaper Etemad. “We are faced with major economic and political problems, such as falling oil prices, which are affecting the budget. The state media tried to divert people’s attention from these problems by bombarding them with propaganda. But it hasn’t worked.”
     
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