Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

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Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099


    1. Powerful lasers are likely to break through the navigation deflector.

      Possible.

      Well, given that their TLs are manual, as in they have gunner firing, its very doubtful.

      UFP ships create a field of warped space around them and it moves them around. ISDs in essence just jump into an alternate galaxy and take a quick slid to where they want to go basicly, which is indeed much faster than UFP ships, though UFP ships are faster at sub-light speeds.

      Actually the SW galaxy is supposed to be fairly big.

      This is because the first Death Star was only ray shielded, and did not have a partical shield, hence why the Empire had created one over Endor's moon and the Death Star II. And no, its unlikely that the UFP would beam in anti-matter, as they would have to lower their shields.



      • Because the TLs are manually aimed, a human cannot fire at FTL objects with any accuracy.

      As part of a basic rule in these kinds of debates, we assume that the physics are adjusted so that both can work their technobabble.

      As above.

    Q could on all accounts, but he likely wouldn't care.

    Actually most of those are pretty basic answers...

    We try to avoid win by plot scenarios, these are pretty much a given.

    [/QUOTE]

    Actually...allow me to display who wins in terms of a all out military war:

    Borg>8472>Empire=Dominion>UFP>Romulans>Klingons>Breen>Gorn>Cardassians>Rebels>Ewoks>Bajorans
     
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  3. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    The Dyson Sphere also had an immense gravitic signature if you remember. That is what keeps NEUTRONium together (Neutron, Neutronium... see the connection? Of course not... idiot)
     
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  5. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    svarney, good point mate. As such, it will be promptly ignored by TW Scott.

    The reason we are arguing with Scott is not to try to convince him ST > SW or vice versa. It's because he's taking one massive shit over everything ST or SW. He is making a mockery of BOTH SciFi Series in an attempt to beat off to his overinflated egotistical fanboism and, quite frankly, it is sickening. Even in the face of cold, hard facts that claim the opposite, he INSISTS he is right EVEN WHEN HE CANNOT SUPPORT IT.

    Disgusting. It really is. You're points are valid and you have given supporting Evidence. Scott... well... yeah. That's more than we can say for him.
     
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  7. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

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    1,099
    Agreed, and I would like to mention that I didn't mean to nitpick at your (svarney) post, it was more of a informative response...from my natural need to correct things...I blame Jar-Jar.:bawl:
     
  8. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Hey, i need some escapism sometimes.

    Yeah it is hard to convince people of the truth as the creator of the ST universe saw it.



    Actually incorrect a Pahser is just a partially phaser particle beam made of nadion a fictional particle that causes chain reaction. this beam travels at .985 light and is stopped by even the flimsiest forcefield as well as radiation.

    Also the Outrageous Okona incident was referring to a ship that was A Tiny, B from a backwards civilization, and C vastly under powered.


    In this disccussion they are assumed to exist.


    Actually, ST ships can only fire torpedoes at FTL and even that is iffy. ISD cannot fight at FTL

    Canon figure is SW galaxy is 120,000 light hyears or 50% larger than our galaxies 80,000 light years.

    the fist DS did not have overlapping shields. They did not think a 20 meter craft was a threat. Second DS had full shields and could not have same thing done. Any point at BoE where fighters were too close to the ship was when the shields had been pounded down by the rest of the fleet.

    Finally Transporter do not work through dense metals or shields, both of which exist in SW ships




    How does Telepathy and telekinesis work then?




    Depends on your definition of good guys? Even the Empire has more personal freedoms than the UFP.

    Besides using the axiom of the goodgusy always wins is pointless. It's just not true. yeah if they made a movie of it the good guys would win. Problem is we are taking this discussion beyond that.

    Would you argue that John McClane (Die Hard) could defeat Megatron?
    Would you argue that Bat Man could defeat Galactus?
    Would you argue that Lancelot could defeat a German Panzer?

    There are enemies out there too powerful for the good guys to defeat. Yes the UFP has done well for now, but they were up against foes that did not have horrendoes advantages in nearly every aspect of combat and were willing to use them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2007
  9. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Well, an immense gravitic signature would be standard for a structure that would easily outweigh a star, even if it was construction of liquid hydrogen. However it does not matter. the sensors had found a Nuetronium-Carbon alloy. One does not alloy a degenerate matter with anything, mainly becuase by definition it is not possible.......idiot.
     
  10. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    You mean the one who had his ships zipping halfway across the galaxy, giving even nut-hospitals planetary shields, and giving the UFP the ability to make a quick bomb that blew off half the atmosphere off a planet?





    Not really, only low level phasers are stopped by radiation. And phasers can cut into shields.

    True.

    Actually, they can also fire phasers as well, as proven in a ton of episodes. The fact is that firing out of the Warp bubble causes the weapon to weaken, making it fairly less effective, hence they prefer photons.

    Um...50% larger than our galaxy would place it 160,000 lightyears by those calcs.


    Actually, it wasn't the DS II's shield, but the ground base shield on Endor.

    No, only exotic materials or exceptionally thick armor can stop transporters. You have to prove that it can stop transporters for that to work. Of course, seeing as how easily a astroid cleaves off the bridge of an ISD...







    ...No it doesn't. And for one, the UFP doesn't go around blowing up planets. Of is that the Empire granting the Alderaans their right to a horrible death?:bugeye:
     
  11. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    You mean by ignoring G-Level Canon, as well as ignoring the fact the UFP has shown as far as on screen visuals go, the ability to blow holes around its own size into a large Borg Cube, covering an area equal to that of an ISD? Or how about Taste of Armageddon, where General order 24 had Scotty preparing the Enterprise to destroy all habital areas of the planet to be destroyed? Or how about when Kirk was worrying if he should destroy all colony (a planet colony by the way) so as to stop the spread of a parasite? Or how about when they rigged up that bomb to blow up that huge omeba? Or how about in the Die is Cast they destroyed 30% of a planet's crust in their opening volly? Or how about Broken Link where its stated that the Defiant alone can slag an entire planet, and apparently kill all the inhabitents of a planet before the exceptionally large Jem'Hadar attack fleet obliterates them, or the Jem'Hadar on the Defiant find them? Or how about in Relics when the Enterprise withstood the solar flares of an unstable sun for three hours with shields at 23% power before they would no longer be protected? Or how about in Masks when the Enterprise D melt off the ice of a large comet larger than their ship with the main phaser array at 10% power? Or how about when the DS9 crew left that bomb on that Dominion outpost that destroyed it and everything withing several hundred kilometers. And again, how about when the Enterprise crew used a quick home made bomb to blow off half the atmosphere off of a planet? That's like 14 or 15 high end yield events from Star Trek.

    What do you have on your side of low firepower? Oh right, so far it amounts to one episode, which is at suspect given just how stupid it is to assume that 400 gigawatts can blow out the UFP shields. Given that said ship eliminated all life on a planet, and that said ship attacking them was created by an incredibely powerful enetity who can mind fuck empaths. Said being himself killed off an entire race with a single thought.

    Yeah, go live in your sad, sad little world of where the UFP has incredibely low yields.
     
  12. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    All of that was plot device. Though I would argue that shielding a mental ward would be a good idea.

    Even the flimsiest shield stops the further progress of a phaser. It's not like the beam just drills through a weak field. it knocks it down then you have to shoot again.

    As for the radiaton low levels effect hand phasers and guess what high levels would do

    Actually the phaser is strictly limited .985 c. Firing a phaser forwards at warp would running into your own blast.

    Our glalaxy ~80,000 light year according to NASA among others


    Semantics when the thing was built it would have had a similar shield system internally.

    First many different materials stops Transporters. hell there was a planetoid made of talc that stopped transporters. Dirt and concrete stopped transporters. Doesn't matter Neutronium is part of SW armor and ST transporter have problems with Neutronium.

    As for the Bridge towers sanpping off. The ISD was unshelded thanks to using the Holonet to transmit to Vader. Even then that asteroid EXPLODED on the surface, not drove through like similiar impacts on ST vessels.

    Hey that was one military leader who might have been reprimanded had he survived. then again it was no different than what was planned in Insurrection and that was the Federation agreeing to it.

    Rights you posses in the Empire that you don't in the Federation.
    *Right to Bear Arms
    *Right to Peacably assemble
    *Right to a trial by jury
    *Right to appeal
    *Right to own and operate a business other than farm, bar or restuarant
    *Right to travel without notifying the Empire
    *Right to owner and operate a Starship
    *Right to arm your starship
    *Right to own land
    *Right to explore
    *Right to Advance Education without military service.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2007
  13. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    So is the Death Star. Its canon.



    Or perhaps those shields are justs strong?

    Low levels only stopped 23rd century phasers.

    Tell that to the writing staff.

    I know, you said that the SW galaxy is 120,000 light years, and also said it was 50% larger than our own galaxy. It would be 160,000 light years.

    Proof?

    Wait, a planetoid, you mean with alot of dirt and rock? Of course its going to stop transporters. And which one did you mean, the one from pegasus? The one where the ship was stuck deep inside and the Enterprise could easily fit inside?

    Wait, they have to lower their shields to use a fucking holonet?

    So Vader, has them expose themselves to the dangers and possibly lose a warship in their search because he wanted to speak face to face? Wow, Vader is a FUCKING MORON!

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    I no longer wonder why the Elite Storm Troopers got their asses kicked by knee high teddy bears with bows and arrows.

    Yeah, because we all know that Vader was really against it...oh, and by the way, it is different as the out cry of the rest of the UFP and the citizens forced the UFP council to back off. Also, the UFP was tricked into it. They thought they where removing primitives from a planet to another planet of similar climent just so they could help countless billions of lives. They where wrong, but they thought they where doing the right thing. As soon as it was revealed that it was a secret blood war, the Admiral in charge himself tried to put and end to it, and would have had he not been murdered.


    Rights you posses in the Empire that you don't in the Federation.

    Wow, I guess Worf should have arrested that old man back in Survivors for possesing a weapon.

    Bullshit.

    You mean like Kirk, Picard, and a few others didn't have a right to a jury-oh, wait, they did!

    Evidence?

    Wow, Sisko's father is going to be pissed...

    Wow, same basic right in the UFP.

    Same right.

    Which you do have in the UFP as long as its not against the law to own like mass planet wide killing chemicals. Or sub-space weapons.

    Add Worf's Foster Parents to the list. And Picard's dead family. And Janeway's husband. And pretty much every UFP member...

    ...ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!:spank:

    THE WHOLE POINT OF FUCKING STARFLEET IS TO EXPLORE YOU RETARDED PIECE OF RADIOACTIVE LUMP-SHIT!

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    HAVE YOU EVER WATCHED STAR TREK IN YOUR FUCKING LIFE?!

    I mean FUCK! What are you, stupid? Where do you get this shit?! I love it how you just make these retarded claims, and yet we know for a fucking fact that 7 of 9's parents left UFP territory to expore and seek first contact with the fucking Borg. Did the UFP stop them? NO! Even though they where warned that the UFP would not come to save them (in part because they could not).

    Wow, add Dr. Soong to that list.

    Scott, you have just destroyed my last shred of respect for you. Claiming bullshit tech claims is bad enough, but this shit is just fucking moronic. I know people who agree with you who wouldn't declare this kind of shit.

    You are in short, a moron.
     
  14. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Well APPARENTLY they did, because in Star Trek high-canon (ON SCREEN) it was STATED that Neutronium is known to be degenerate when removed from the neutron star and ONLY a powerful gravity well can keep it somewhat stabilized. Hence why the DDD was such a strange thing to encounter and why the DysonSphere was 1) So damn big 2) Near Indestructible 3) Unstable.

    How about you try actually watching ST once in a while... idiot.
     
  15. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    *blinks* What... the... fuck... Scott. Are you FUCKING RETARDED? No, don't answer that, i already know the answer. Jesus Christ... the Right to Explore? WHAT? The entire POINT of Star Trek is to EXPLORE! Arm your starship which apparently you cannot own??? WHAAAT? Right to a trial? Federation Council anyone? The fact that ANY starship captain can A) Serve as a judge on his ship and B) Serve also as an anoited to do weddings! Come on scott!
     
  16. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, and Scott: The Milky Way is a bit larger than that:

    http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0859648.html

    http://www.astronomycafe.net/qadir/q2139.html

    Oh, and don't forget- most Space Travel occurs in 3D... so give an indication of the depth, breadth, and width of the galaxy. And don't forget- the galaxy, you know, generally moves? So the spiral arms could be accounting for large distance variations.
     
  17. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member

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    1,898
    Scott...are you desperate enough to hold onto a solo-perceived superior position that you begin to attack political merits? I have included counterexamples in red (all episode canon) against your claims.

    Even though Hellblade already addressed this, there are many more examples in the Federation of these rights. Plus you need to add the fact that the Federation will recognize the rights of non-carbon based life forms (Data, and partially Voyager's EMH). Hm...Data was second in command of Starfleet's flagship. The EMH has commanded Voyager twice. Wars best cyborg was a crook and not strictly AI, and the rest are servants, with no rights.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2007
  18. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

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    1,099
    And really Scott, this is all really sad. Because the only reason why Star Wars wins in the end is thanks to the UFP handicap Trekkies tend to place on the UFP in debates. Even if we gave you 200 gigatons per HTL, you would still not beat the UFP with the handicap gone.
     
  19. Saquist Banned Banned

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    Correct. Trek isn't about firepower, it's technique.

    Many times it's not the power of the weapon...Its defeating their shields, using tractor beams to restrict motion, modulation, energy drain weapons, transporter bombs and tricobalt signitures.
     
  20. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

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    1,099
    Indeed, forget about the photons and the phasers, worry about that deflector dish.

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  21. Saquist Banned Banned

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    Gosh yeah. The Deflector would wipe away a ship like the ISD like bug spray. Even the Super Star Destroyer would be hulled by that blast.

    As a rule when it came to needing fire power Federation technology always has had the ability
     
  22. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    You want the ultimate "weapon" in Star Trek? How about these:

    Scott, I would like to point out THIS QUOTE:

    Quantum torpedoes are not entirely effective against solid neutronium.[15]

    BOOSH! Neutronium hull or not, you are screwed!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_of_Star_Trek

    So, Scott. Would you like the ashes of your SSD sent back in a silver or golden urn?
     
  23. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Wiki Warp Speeds

    warp 9.2 translates to 306,714,000 miles/sec. Travel to Proxima Centuri from Earth would only take 22.58 hours
     
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