Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

?

Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Nasor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,231
    Give me a specific episode where they're shown firing phasors beyond visual range.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    Are... you... fucking... stupid...

    WHERE do you keep pulling 15 MILLION from... 40 thousand at best...

    And trek has more than 1k ships... I believe there are currently 3k actual "active" warships... not including those in reserve.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    He raised shields because that's standard protocol...
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    *rolls his eyes* Go back a few hundred pages and find it yourself, I'm tired of posting episodes over and over to refute the same damn claims... and now that I have two full time jobs, am planning my wedding, AND am a full time student, I dont' have time to search thru my collection of TNG, DS9, and Voyager to find, but I leave you with this:

    "Photonic torpedoes. Their range is over fifty times greater than our conventional torpedoes. And they have a variable yield. They can knock the comm array off a shuttle pod without scratching the hull, or they can put a three kilometre crater into an asteroid." - Reed to Trip.

    That's an old, Enterprise-Era (NX01) Photonic Torpedo. And considering their conventional torpedoes were used out to 10,000 km... 50x10,000 = 500,000km. MINIMUM.
     
  8. Nasor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,231
    The imperium divides the galaxy up into cubic boxes 8 lightyears on each edge, and assigns 50-70 capital ships plus escorts per box. Do the math. There are about 40 thousand marine ships alone (about 30-40 ships per chapter times 1000 chapters), and the marine fleets are miniscule compared to the imperial navy. You really think a civilization with a billion worlds is going to produce a fleet of 40 thousand ships? I don't think I'm the one who is being fucking stupid here.

    Edit:
    So, okay, I'll grant you that it's 3k fed ship against 15+million ships from 40k, if you really think the extra few thousand are going to matter. And as was said before, the "escorts" in 40k start at 750 m, larger than most fed capital ships - so really it's going to be more like 30-45 million ships that the feds are up against, ranging in size from .75-8 km.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2009
  9. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    Yes, I have. And I've also studied beyond quantum physics into meta-physics. Like it or not, that was one example of what happens when you pump too much energy into a photon. I mean, face it - Energy is inversely proportional to wavelength: as wavelength approaches zero, energy approaches infinity. Which means that, practically speaking, you will have a NO WAVELENGTH laser as you near the upper limtis. Considering how a laser works, that isn't really possible.

    For a photon to exist, something must produce it. The photon can not have more energy than that which produced it.

    That tells us one thing - the MAXIMUM outtput of your lasers is equal to your power core... no more. Where as Phasers can have far more destructive potential than their initial energy because of how the rapid nadion effect works.
     
  10. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    God man, I hope you don't ever attempt to join a debate team... you'd get your ass handed to you faster than you could blink.

    Go back to you're supposed college-physics classes and this time DON'T SLEEP THRU THEM... you might actually LEARN something.
     
  11. Exterminate!!! Registered Member

    Messages:
    254
    what if i just screwed you all over and threw starCRAFT into the mix?
     
  12. Nasor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,231
    Ok, what was the name of your quantum physics textbook?
    Sure. But a photon traveling through free space won't just magically turn into a particle pair.
    I hate to break this to you, but you can get arbitrarily close to zero. No matter how small the wavelength is, you can always cut it in half again and double the energy of the resulting photon. If you had actually studied physics in any serious way you would surely have known that.
    Lol, okay, I'll grant you that the total amount of energy in the universe places a practical upper limit on the energy of a photon.
    Whereas in 40k they can suck energy in from other dimensions, and other fuffy tricks.

    So explain to me again how the federation is going to fight 30-45 million ships?
     
  13. Nasor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,231
    It's funny that you say this, when I explicitly told you where my numbers came from and why your estimate that the imperium has 40 thousand ships is stupidly low - and you try to just dismiss it without actually providing any argument of your own. That's not the sort of thing that wins debates.
     
  14. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    Because they are nonsense... nothing in the books NOR games even BEGINS to indicate a fleet power NEAR that. Tell me - do you play the board games? What, exactly, are you taking your "facts" from?
     
  15. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    As far as the QM books I've studied (note - none of this was in a classroom setting, this was all personal reading because it piqued my interest) include:

    Principles of Quantum Mechanics, 2nd ed. by R. Shankar

    Introduction to Quantum Mechanics by David J. Griffiths

    And my personal favorite (because it provided the most examples with explanations)

    Quantum Mechanics: Concepts and Applications by Nouredine Zettili
     
  16. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    And yes, you can divide the wavelength in half infinitely number times... in theory. In practice, however, there becomes a point where manufacturing tech simply cannot DO THAT. I don't personally believe WH40K has the technology to perform such a feat... we're talking nanotech applications of a highly impressive stature... and if WH40K could do that, they'd be using far more impressive technology than bolters or las-cannons... and Space Marine armor would be much smaller and more mobile.. and cybernetic implants would be COMMONPLACE...

    Right now, WH40K actually looks more like an interm step between modern day and Star Trek... approximately what we would see pre-world war 3...
     
  17. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    A couple bits of info on Trek Tech: These are taken from sources that extrapolate from cannon information ONLY. They will state (quite plainly) if something is an estimate. This is based on the latest technology for StarFleet, mostly from the Sovereign class Starship.




    Right there - we can see that the cargo transporters can easily move a Titan

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



     
  18. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    Tthere... *rubs eyes* I hope that helps you see why I'm so certain on my stance here.
     
  19. antaran_1979 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,447
    1. no, but nothing can emit an infinite energy photon eighter. if you pump the space time with enough energy you effectively turn it into a black hole.

    2.again no, beyon'd planck space/time you can't even define the lenght let alone wave length.

    3. really the upper limit is far less.

    4. :bugeye:

    5. they won't, the feds would not fight alone and 1 of their ships alone can aperantly last for hours or days.



    now some further info on the Talarian incident (directly from memory alpha):
    "In 2367 Talarian military weaponry was inferior to Federation standards, consisting of neutral particle weapons, X-ray lasers, and merculite rockets, and thus did not represent a serious tactical threat to a Galaxy-class starship"

    so what part of these weapons posed a threat? probably all together combined. if they weakend the E-Ds shields even lasers could cut through the hull.

    in case you did not bother to read my posts no matter how powerful a laser it still follows the space time curvature unlike a solid that would gain a new parabolic path when cought in the gravity well.
     
  20. antaran_1979 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,447
    here is from memory alpha on the size of a federation fleet used to retake DS9:

    "In the plan presented to Starfleet Command, Sisko proposed to assemble a task force composed of elements from the Second, Fifth, and Ninth fleets and reinforced by a large contingent of Klingon warships. Launching from Starbase 375, the fleet would advance across the Bajor Sector and mount an assault to retake Deep Space 9 from Dominion hands.

    However, many senior officials in both the Federation and Klingon hierarchies had grave problems with this plan. Sisko's plans required that a large number of ships be diverted from several crucial theaters of combat, including the Vulcan and Terran sectors.

    Five days away from the planned launch of the offensive, alarming news arrived at Starbase 375: the Cardassians had finally devised a practical method of destroying the minefield.

    Unfortunately, the fleet was only about 62.7% assembled; the Ninth Fleet had not yet arrived, and no indication of support had come from the Klingons.

    As the Starfleet force approached the Bajor System, some 627 starships strong, they were confronted by a massive formation of 1,254 enemy vessels, outnumbering the Federation fleet 2-1."

    [note from me, starships, not fighter, not shuttles, starships]
     
  21. Nasor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,231
    A box that contains 8 million cubic lightyears is 200 lightyears on each side. If you assume that the galaxy is only 1 sector thick, that means it would take have about 280,000 sectors. Multiply the number of sectors by 50-75 vessels per sector, and you get many millions of ships. This is a reasonable number, given that the imperium spans the entire galaxy and has about a billion inhabited planets - in fact, it's only on the order of about 1 ship for every 70 planets. If they only had around 40 thousand ships as you have claimed, that would be about 1 ship for every 25 thousand planets, which seems ridiculous.
    Of course your technology will limit how powerful your weapons can be. But there is no limit to the theoretical power of a laser weapon, as you were claiming earlier.
     
  22. Nasor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,231
    I didn't say you could make an infinitely powerful laser. I said you could make an arbitrarily powerful laser.
    If you want to argue that plank length is the smallest possible wavelength, you're looking at each photon having the energy of 3 tons of TNT. Even I'm not trying to claim that 40k weapons might be that powerful.
     
  23. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    Yes, there is. That limit is the point at which you change the photon to another type of energy altogether... and there are also far LOWER practical limits...
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page