Muslim Experience in America

Discussion in 'Politics' started by DiamondHearts, Aug 6, 2008.

  1. lepustimidus Banned Banned

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    S.A.M:
    So? Kuwait was an autonomous nation-state at the time of invasion. Hence the Iraqis have invaded a country, contrary to what you were claiming. You were wrong. But then again, what's new?

    What the fuck are you on about, S.A.M? Just answer the question I put forward, instead of evading it. Why is it OK for suicide bombers to kill the civilians of the country under occupation?
     
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  3. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Not if they still consider it a part of their country.Westerners partitioning countries at whim and imposing their boundaries and puppet regimes on people is not incumbent on the people of any country.


    You're assuming that suicide bombers are actually doing it. Because the western media says so? Ever wonder why ONLY American invasions lead to suicide bombings?
     
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  5. Bells Staff Member

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    :bugeye:

    Ah geez Sam, what difference do you think it makes?

    Lets see... Kuwait is a sovereign nation with clear borders. Something even Iraq recognised. And what? Saddam just changed his mind?... I guess you can't repay yourself your debts..

    Which has what to do with this argument?

    Does not mean Israel's actions are in any way valid. Nor was Saddam's when he decided to rebuild the motherland.
     
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  7. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    And yet Israeli actions, even with innumerable UN resolutions do not warrant an invasion, while Iraqi do? Especially considering that Israelis are not even natives. Why?
     
  8. Bells Staff Member

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    They didn't consider it a part of their country since 1963 Sam. Again, as much as the Iraqis might have considered it as part of Iraq, it was no longer the case.

    Kuwait is an independent sovereign nation.


    I'm sorry, were the Kuwaiti's rejoicing when Saddam decided they had to rejoin the fold? After all, if it is as you say that the independence of Kuwait was against the wishes of the people of the region, they'd have been rejoicing when Saddam decided to invade, wouldn't they? But they did not. Why is that, do you think? On the contrary, instead of welcoming the Iraqi soldiers who had come to liberate them from the supposed Western puppet, they either attempted to flee or hide.

    On a side note, how much influence did the West have in the election of Sabah I bin Jaber as the first Emir of Kuwait? As I understand it, all leaders of Kuwait follow down the same family line as the first Emir.. So how exactly did the West impose their own puppet regime in Kuwait when the regime family line never changed from the first Emir?
     
  9. Bells Staff Member

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    I take it you missed the last sentence from that quote?

    Israel, like Kuwait, are sovereign nations, whether you agree with it or not. Does not mean Israel should have an open ticket to invade its neighbours and should the repurcussions of said actions be the same as what Saddam faced when he decided to invade his neighbour? Yes.

    Whether the world's reaction to either being hypocritical or downright one sided, it still does not detract from the fact that Kuwait is an independent and sovereign nation.
     
  10. Tommy317 Registered Member

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    This article is so american, they try so hard to make them middle class at first and then make everything seem so emotional and dramatic. I have full respect for muslims but i dont like this article, the way they have to say thing s implying they were not proper muslims therefore they are good. I realise its to gain sympathy but its milked.
     
  11. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Riiiight. Only them. That's what it is.
     
  12. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Ah. That must be why Hamas' website encourages Palestinians to drink the blood of the Jews, and why Christians and other religious minorities are being ordered to convert or move by Sam's "people who are tired of being bombed by the evil US". Or why Iran just rounded up all those Bahais and Christians and athiests. Of course! Nothing religious in all that.
     
  13. mike47 Banned Banned

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    The Christian terrorists went to Afghanistan and Iraq and are killing the poor who can not defend themselves . When Russia attacked Georgia the Christians terrorists shut their mouths . An invasion of a nation is a terrorism act . It does not matter who he is the invader . A murderer is a murderer regardless to religion or nationality . Those who kill innocent people in Iraq , Afghanistan , Palestine .....etc are TERRORISTS and everyone knows that .
     
  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    So its official then. You do not need to be considered with legalities of kidnapping people from foreign countries, imprisoning or torturing them for several years and holding kangaroo courts convicting them of crimes on foreign soil, based on random, retroactive reinterpretation of events.

    Only if you accept it. Countries like Australia have been formed on the basis that other people's rights to self determination do not apply if you do not recognise them. An invader can make up new rules of what defines recognition.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2008
  15. Bells Staff Member

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    And Iraq did accept it in 1963 when they recognised it as an independent and sovereign State, as well as recognising its borders. Are you saying they are allowed to change their minds?...

    Australia and other countries were formed in that fashion. Yes.

    But was this the same with Kuwait? No. As I said before, Saddam probably figured he would not have to repay himself a huge debt if he forcefully absorbed Kuwait back into the fold.
     
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    So? Who said Saddam has to follow the Australian way? Why? Did anyone invade Australia for making up their own rules of what constitutes their nation?
     
  17. Bells Staff Member

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    'Cos we say so.

    Jokes aside, Saddam's invasion of Kuwait was not because he wanted to rebuild the motherland. And his having recognised and accepted Kuwait as a sovereign nation in all that time before the war is telling, is it not?

    Surely you aren't advocating the forced re-integration of countries that were once one, where only one country is willing?

    Oh, and you still didn't answer my previous question about your comments about Kuwait's puppet Government... "How much influence did the West have in the election of Sabah I bin Jaber as the first Emir of Kuwait?"

    Aside from the massive influx from NZ? No.

    But again, Australia's inception is vastly different to that of Kuwait's. After all, wasn't it a de facto independent State even when it was under Ottoman rule and only came under British Protection by its own request when Turkey attempted to invade it?
     
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Kuwait was a province of Iraq under the Ottomans. The question is, that Australia apparently does not recognise the sovereignty of countries like Iraq and Afghanistan to have their own laws, forget about the land grab from residents of Australia [from natives with a minimum of 40,000 years claim] as evinced by the presence of their troops in these countries. So its rather hypocritical to apply any such standards to Saddam Hussein.
     
  19. Bells Staff Member

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    As was Iraq, wasn't it? Does that mean Turkey can invade both countries and reclaim?

    I don't think Australia or the US consider either Iraq or Afghanistan as being part of our respective countries. I certainly do not recall seeing represented in our previous elections as having seats in our Parliament.

    Both are still independent and sovereign countries. We have not implemented our own laws in their countries.

    Saddam was spesh.
     
  20. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Both have or had Australian troops in their countries. Why?
     
  21. Bells Staff Member

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    War...

    Happens when you go to war with another country. Australia supported the US in their decision to go to war with both countries.

    But again, could you please enlighten me about your claims of a puppet Government in Kuwait, apparently put in place by the West?
     
  22. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    So you would have accepted, for example, a Russian bombing of your city in return for an Australian tresspass on Iraqi/Afghani sovereignty?

    Sure.


     
  23. Bells Staff Member

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    Of course not. Just as I disagree with the wars my own country happens to be waging in both those countries.

    Still doesn't answer the question of just how the West installed the Emir into power. Even your own quote does not say that it was the British (the dreaded West) who put him in power..

    So how did the West influence this process at that time, since the family line in leadership continues to this day?
     

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