Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

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Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. FoolFromHell Photons be Free. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    421
    Unfortunately, you are wrong there.
    Making something drop from warp without the correct countermeasures makes it extremely unstable, but traveling at said speeds.

    Hell, at Maximum Impulse, ramming a ship against a planet would produce a similar (if not more effective) effect.
     
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  3. FoolFromHell Photons be Free. Registered Senior Member

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    421
    Im damn tired of this again. Gonna ignore Scott.
     
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  5. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

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    1,265
    But why would they be down? No signs of any pre-liminary damage to the event? Seeing the effect that CIS weapons do to a Rep cruiser, we surely would have seen something. So the sheilds hadn't just buckled and then CIS stopped attacking. And internal damage was suffered and you can't deny that. So they have sheilds that don't protect the hull/crew?:wtf: That's what sheilds are for!
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2007
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  7. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Actually, I am correct, in True Q they were going to lighten the mass of the moon using the warp field. Not only that but Nemesis proves you wrong. Once warp cuts out the Enterprise drops to sublight, very slow sublight as it was almost still before it went to warp.

    As for crashing a ship into the planet first you have to figure the damage to the ship from hitting the damn atmosphere. There isn't going to be much of a ship left against an Earth-like atmosphere.
     
  8. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Actually watch it again there are signs of damage on both, just not heavy damage. It is possible that both ships had managed to take mostly light damage thanks to luck and the shields going out only recently. Neither ship was pristine after all, just managed to take only minor damage until then. Besides the Supreme Chancellor was on that vessel. Jedi commanders would have made sure that Invisible Hand's shields were down, but that it was largely unharmed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2007
  9. halo07guy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    400
    Until it tore in half anyway. ST is good for humor, and prospects of life on other planets, and the unfortunately unrealistic dream of a utopia. Sw is good for lots and lots and lots of drama, and some of the best music ever composed (Besides Lux Aeterna by Clint Mansell).

    SW is not classified as a Science Fantasy. Its called a space opera.

    And TW does have a point about what you are saying, FFH. If they fought the way you say they do how come we never see it on screen. I bet that if someone were to make a video that has everything you say they do, it would look very distant from what we see in the show. I mean, dozens of ships flying around at C+ shooting phasers at each other, dogfighting like WW2 planes, photon torpedos flying every which way and compleatly destroying ships, planets and moons in one hit, as well as the torpedos firing every 6 seconds or so and always hitting thier target, ships hitting a moon and coming through it on the other side, and beaming away the crew and parts of the hull, as well as critical systems. If they fought the way you say they do, then it would look nothing like the show we've seen.
     
  10. FoolFromHell Photons be Free. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    421
    They have done it.
    #1: They dont use Phasers at Warp fights. They only use Torpedos
    #2: They do fight that way, and they show a close-up of one ship firing, then at another ship thats on the receiving end. As I said, in the episode Equinox, Voyager was at max warp and took out the Engines of teh Equinox at 40,000+ Miles.
    #3: People from ST have been known to be beamed away in the heat of battle. ST species knows how to block the beaming, but can be caught unawares.
    #4: Coordinating dozens of ships at C is pretty damned impossible. But one ship can easily do it.
    #5: A ship at 75%c and that weighs a 2,060,000 KGs or more since it obviously does, can cause extinction if rammed against a planet. The Dinosaur-Extinction meteor was only 10km across and made of rock... a ST vessel would have shields and alloys that are extremely durable.
     
  11. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,265
    No no no... I'm refering to the Rep. Cruiser.
     
  12. halo07guy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    400
    Yes, but compile it into one big video of a single battle, and you get something that looks nothing like ST. I mean were we to go with what your saying, and you'd have caps moving like fighters, rolling and manuevaring like a squirrel thats had too much sugar, photons blowing everything up, and people disappearing all over the place only to reappear on the windshield. What your describing would look nothing like what we've seen. I would prefer to use something that has a 100% chance of hitting (aka Phasers) rather then something that only hits about 80% of the time.

    And a question, when a ship explodes and the warp field fails, then why doesn't the explosion and debris become infintely massive?
     
  13. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,265
    Uh, no the fights and the music are quite better (in my opinion) than SW.
    DS9: 'Sacrifice of Angels'
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2007
  14. FoolFromHell Photons be Free. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    421
    Wait a sec.
    How the hell will you fight Species 8472?
    Each bioship has the power of 1/8 the deathstar...
    (8 Bioships to blow up a planet)
     
  15. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    It took seven bioships and one special ship to create an gigantic explosion on a borg indutrialized world. Even then we did not see if the results were similiar to DS or not. We have no idea how much of the energy was provided by the center ship of if perhaps the center ship was a one shot device. We see no repeats of this and we didn't see them use it against a shielded world.

    In other words pure speculation.
     
  16. FoolFromHell Photons be Free. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    421
    Damn it scott. NO SHIELD ANYWHERE CAN STOP SOMETHING CAPABLE OF DESTROYING A PLANET.
    Are you RETARDED?
    Any of you SW fans want to disregard him for this? You see something on ST and its false. Of course. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT ALDERAAN HAD A SHIELD? How do you know that a Death Star can overcome that shield?
    Exactly. NO DAMN PROOF.
    I DAMN GIVE UP. ******* IDIOTS LIKE YOU CANT BE CURED.

    Voyager survived hits from something that had the power to team up with only 7 others of its kind to blow up a planet. But NO! Its PURE DAMN SPECULATION.

    <Scott Mode>
    its pure speculation that the Death Star blew up the planet. How do you know that it want a natural implosion caused by all the atoms of the planet simultaneously disintegrating? Its completely possible! The chances may be larger than 1 in every single atom in the universe, BUT YOU HAVE NO PROOF ITS NOT. </Scott Mode>
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2007
  17. FoolFromHell Photons be Free. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    421
    TO ALL SANE PEOPLE.
    8 Bioships can blow up a planet, which requires IMMENSE ENERGY.
    Voyager can survive atleast 1 hit from a Bioship.
    THUS: ST Shields can withstand 1/8 the power generated by the Death Star's main beam.
    Rendering ALL SW WEAPONS INEFFECTIVE vs. ST Shields except the Death Star I, II, the Tarkin, and a few other super-weapons which are clearly not in abundance.
    Thankyouverymuch.
     
  18. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    In your wildest dreams

    Yes and said torpedos do far less damage at warp then they do at sublight. Witness in Nemesis, The Scimitar fires several photon torpedoes on criticla shots while the Enterprise the traveling with it's shields down. The Torpedos do little damage and only knocks the ship ouit of warp, as opposed to blowing the ship a new one.

    Strange but I don't see any mention of Voyager taking out the engines of the Equinox.....

    Uhmmm, what the hell are you talking about. I have never seen a starship use transporters to rid itself of boarding parties. Hell they aren't even smart enough to turn up the lights against a race that hates bright light.


    Actually cordinating dozen of ships at C should be damed easy for computers.

    If asteroid you desribe was 10km across and made on nickel-iron and rock. it was coming in at rough .25c by some estimates. 10km of nickle-iron and rock would weight several thousand times what even a Federation Sovereign class starship would. Not to mention that impacting the atmosphere at .75c would destroy the Sovereign's shields, and cuase the front of the ship to melt and crush in rapid order. It would be a spectacular explosion as the Warp core breached in atmosphere. Resulting in, at best, a few hundred gigatons in atmosphere.
     
  19. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Actually we do have proof and it has been point out several times. First is novelization. Novels hold that major planets have plantetary shields that can protect them form any conventional bombardment. Secondary is the visuals of the planetary destruction scene in ANH. You can clearly see a a green shimmer spread rapidly across global curvature and suddenly stop as if it hit brick wall. Thos tweo things are all we need, the shields existed. Not only did they exist but they were powerful enough to protect Alderaan even from KT even type asteroids or possible moon drops.


    First of all the standard bioships teamed up with six others and a special ship in the center tha was obviously not the same. Watch the scene and you will see that I am right.

    Keep watching it. The beam hist the planet and explodes instant, not surprising as Borg prefer an atmosphere saturated with methane. However we are no able to see if this is a just a surface explosion or the entire planet breaking up. We don't know how much energy the normal bioships lent, or if perhaps the beams were simply targeting and control information. We are not told anything.

    However, I will point out that if the Bioshi[p fired on Voyager and Voyager survived intact, by all canon information the Bioship must have been emitting less that 12 billion gigawats per second. Meaning quite likely the majority of power came from the special ship the other seven fired into. Since we did not see that done again, It might ver well have been a rare type of armament that is only used in offes. I will also point out that Species 8472 only goes on the offensive when invaded. You can't make a race act against it's very nature.
     
  20. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,265
    1: Yes they did, I've seen a picture.

    2: You forget that Feds are good problem solvers, if they don't do some thing it's usaually for a good reason. And what about the lights?
     
  21. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,265
    Voyager destroys the Equinox port warp nacelle, and the ship falls out of warp, leaking plasma. Voyager continues to pursue, still firing its weapons. The EMH transmits the shield frequency to Burke. Voyager moves in, preparing to engage a tractor beam, while Burke manages to fire torpedoes through the shields. Despite Tuvok rotating the shield frequency every ten seconds, Voyager suffers extensive damage, losing many weapons arrays and the impulse drive. Ransom suddenly hails the ship and offers to surrender, saying he can transport the Equinox crew to Voyager, and Janeway agrees. She tells her crew, who are amazed at their captain's sudden change in attitude, that Ransom is a Starfleet captain, even if he forgot that for a while. Memory Alpha

    Right here scott, destroyed the port warp nacelle.
     
  22. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,265
    What I'm saying here is that since we know how much damage CIS weaponry does to Rep. Ships, we certainly would have seen some of the same damage on that cruiser as it pulled up.
     
  23. halo07guy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    400
    There is a diffrence between hitting armor and hitting the inside of the ship. It is the same as a tank hitting the fron of an Abrams with a shell and there being an explosion, but nary a scratch on it, and then a shell going through the hatch on the top and detonating inside. Armor has certain effects on weapons. Its not just firepower that matters. Its the armor that matters too. And your reasoning gives proof to it losing shields shortly before that broadside. And you have to remember, when you have a broadsid in which half the heavy guns are firing extreamly rapidly, about once every 1/2 second, then it is no surprise the shields were. The Munifcent- class frigates on the CIS side had powerful primary cannons that could blast met a small moon. If a ship got hit by that, of course its shields would be down.
     
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