Star Wars vs Star Trek

Small Problem. Where are you going to get one? Only one person could make it work and he died on a klingon blade and then the planet his body was one tore itself apart.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

yeah it was a great scene

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

In that case, the Death Star I and II dont exist, and the ONLY SHIPS YOU CAN USE ARE NEW REPUBLIC SHIPS.
All the power of the Empire doesnt exist since it collapsed. The latest point in canon is your point of projection, right?
Have a good day.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Dude. Other than YOU... EVERYONE HERE AGREES THAT THATS DAMNED UNFAIR.
The dude who wrote ICS books wrote the books with the INTENT TO WIN THE DEBATES.
At ANY Fair debate or court in the WORLD, Those books wouldnt be considered.

 

Are you damned kidding me?
SW Sublight Speeds for capital ships are so damned slow.
The ISDs move at a like 200m/s and they can barely hit fighters...
Impulse Drive in ST approaches C.

I call for EVERYONE to ignore this idiot who has no idea what he is talking about.

 

Actually,I think a ISD has a sublight speed of about warp 2 or 3. Not exactly fast, but enough to gain on the Millenium Falcon.

 

Warp 3 is 487c...
The ISD cannot go nearly as fast as Impulse since Impulse in TOS was 75% c and in TNG+, its obviously more.

 

Well, it is definately something that is in the lower warp levels. Not 200/m second, but definately lower then 75% of C. Which leads me to this question. The closer you get to C, the larger an on=bject gets and the slower time gos until time esseintially stops and the object becomes infintiely large. How do they get around that? I would think being larger would be quite an advantage.

 

Starfleet/others have a way to get around relativity... But we have NEVER seen any SW ships go that fast... The fastest we have seen is the Blockade Runner and an ISD running at those speeds for a short burst or so.
Warp 1 is speed of light.
A SUBLIGHT speed of any SW ship cant exceed Warp 1. And even 22nd century freighters could go at warp 1...

Oh, and that "impulse can go at 75% c" thing was from ENTERPRISE. Not TOS. Sorry. But thats even more impressive.
I doubt any SW ship can even hit any ST ship at maximum impulse... much less... Warp 1.

Plus, ST can pull the Picard Maneuver, showing up at multiple places at once.
For a computer to calculate something like that so quickly at the speed of light, it must be advanced, and it is.

I have a question for anyone who might have an answer.
The EMH has AI comparable to Data. So... why is Starfleet researching a positronic brain when Zimmerman invented something thats comparable with technology thats the same? You could stick holo-projectors on the hallways of ships easily (as on the USS Prometheus), and create a defense force thats unbeatable...


Basically.
ST ships cant be hit because of their speed and the fact that SW weapons can NEVER exceed c.
ST ships cant be boarded since the enemies can be transported out or holo-projectors can make holographic soldiers.
ST ships cant be caught
(some) ST ships cant be detected. (cloaking).
ST ships can run around any ISD and take out its shields with a few well-placed Quantum Torpedos.
ST ships can fire from 40,000+ miles away. SW ships cant exit Hyperspace so close to a planet/gravity source, giving ST space stations ample time to destroy SW ships since SW ships have terribly slow sublight speeds...

I mean.. Seriously... Imagine a Quantim Torpedo hitting ANYTHING at ~21,000 C which is Warp 9.9. (VOY: "The 37's")....
The kinetic force alone would probably cause extinction.
The asteroid that caused the extinction of the Asteroids was 50 megatons x 2,000,000 tons of TNT= 100,000,000 megatons of TNT
Proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicxulub_Crater#Impact_specifics

That would be

Code:

1.98175517 × 10^27

KG of energy if you could say that a photon torpedo is 100kg since Spock fit in one.
That means that its

Code:

1.98175517 x 10^27 kilograms = 4.25696157 × 10^43 calories.

This site- http://home.att.net/~numericana/answer/units.htm#othertons
Says that its 1,000,000,000 calories/ton of TNT.

That means

Code:

4.25696157 × 10^34 tons of TNT

THAT would mean

Code:

4.25696157 × 10^25 megatons of TNT Force.

Compare

Code:

4.256 x 10^25 megatons of TNT

from one 100kg Photon Torpedo shot at Warp 9 vs. the Asteroid from the Cretaceous that was 100,000,000 megatons of

Code:

TNT or 10^7 megatons of TNT

.


That way, every single Federation ship at Warp 9.9 can obliterate the life from any planet...
And I dont want to be bothered calculating it for other Warp Factors... but just find the % of velocity for other factors and compare it to the figure I give you, but its clear that any Federation ship destroy entire continents with just ONE Photon Torpedo.

You cant argue with simple physics.
(Damn. Spent 1 hour checking and double-checking my equations. Haha. I got no life)

 

Actually the Empire took a good long time to break apart after the Death of the Emperor. It fell apart more due to internal squabbles than the Republic. Even then the Remannat still controll a chunk of galaxy larger than the Federation, Romulans, and Cardassians combined.

However the second Death Star proves that they can be duplicated and in rapid order (it took only six months to produce what we saw on screen). The New Republic actually has a set of plans for a Death Star and could easily build one.

Since we have not heard of a duplicate Genesis devices, despite the need for them, they obviously cannot be duplicated. Same with Doomsday device and Dyson sphere.

As for starships, the New Republic continued producing Death Stars and even made vast improvements like the Defender class.

The difference you were trying to have STto use multiples of a unique device, while SW is only bringing things that it can make multiples of.

 

Dr. Curtis Saxton

Yeah, like anyone outside of die hard Trekkies believes this man wrote a book simply to win an argument. The man is a well respected Physicist that speciallizes in the very types of physics that we are discussing. He did not pursue Lucas to write this book. Lucas saw some of his work and decided to use him to do the technical analysis. The moment Lucas did that it made Dr. Saxton's calculations and observations canon.

Now untill you can find a similiar accredited individual to back your claims, I suggest you just go home and cry on your pillow.

 

We are using EVERY CHARACTER and EVERY SHIP.
So, we can HAVE Marcus and so on.
Seriously... dude.... stop arguing that old tangent.
This has gone for 300+ pages because idiots like you... namely you... bring back the SAME DAMN POINTS.

 

You are an idiot, the larger ships appear to move slowly becuase they are so large. If a small ship moves 3 km in a second it looking like is it just zipping along. Something that 1.6 km long would look like it barely moved. All part of relativity, jerk off.

Impulse Drive in ST may approach C but WE ALMOST NEVER SEE THEM MOVE THAT FAST ON SCREEN. Hell, Defiant moves twenty times it's own length in one second when it really whipping around. That 2400 meters!

 

Fine you can have David Marcus, now try to get him to produce a Genesis device for use as a weapon. Sorry isn't going to happen. Hell he could have saved his hide by doing it and instead took the blade rather than letting Saavik die. That is Canon. And don't bother lying to him, he's too suspicious even of people he likes.

The reason this is 300+ pages is becuase people like you who argue even miniscule argument and even when the matter is laid to rest, you dig it up.

 

Unfortunately, its said by actors, and that means its canon.
A rebel Fighter can keep pace with an ISD...
The ISD isnt that fast dude...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_I-class_Star_Destroyer

Acceleration is 2300g...
thats 23,000 m/s acceleration. Not fast at all compared to a any Federation ship.

The reason the Defiant goes so slow is that if it goes faster, the enemy will go faster too, causing the stationary DS9 to lose target. A stationary starbase cant attack an enemy at Warp.

 

Actually differently ships have differnet impulse rates from .25c to .975c.

.25c is considered full impulse, faster uis max impulse.

As for combat it is usually done sub full impulse. The faster you are going the harder it is to turn and manever after all. Also as we have seen 99.9% of STs tarship combat is at point blank range between two vessels that are moving slowly or stopped.

Imperial I Star Destroyers have a >2,300 Gravity maximum acceleration. This is of course flat out speed, but safe to say that an ISD could match .25c easily.

 

An ISD would suffer from relativism easily.
ST ships have been SHOWN to not suffer from relativism.
Also, Ships in Voyager have been SHOWN to be able to fire ship subsystems as maximum warp from up to 50,000 km away.
VOY: Equinox
Its safe to say that a single Federation warship can target the weak-hulled bridges of any SW ship quite easily from a distance and speed that SW cannot access..

Also, ST ships can zip around at Impulse speeds.
an ISD needs as much time to decelerate as it took to accelerate...

 

But unfortunately for you visuals hold sway over words.

You'd cry foul if at some point a storm troper arms a 4 kiloton thermal detonator and saysd it allowed but then tosses it and it fails to kill Luke Skywalker.....

Same thing here, Character says full impulse but ship only moves twenty times it own length, I cry foul.

Okay even if you are correct, 23,000m/s acceleration means that the ISD is flying ~191.6666... lengths of the Defiant the first second it accelerates from a dead stop. The next second it is doing 383.3333... lengths, the third second it is doing 575 lengths of the definat in ONE second.

We have never seen the Defiant move sublight at anywhere that even apprached that quickly, let alone faster.

However fighters are faster that ISD, especially the X-wing, A-wing and TIE series.

Since TOS we have NEVER seen a ship fight at warp. Not one phaser or disrupter fired forwards at that speed. Some photons yes, but they were so diminished in power as to be useless.

Both Disruptors and Phasers are strictly sublight weapons and torpedoes lose most of their effectiveness at warp. Thus why you see 99.9 percent of ST battles at sublight.

 

Missed a few episodes haven't we.... the Defiant suffers from Relativist time warp any time that it exceeds .75c.

Star Wars vessels obviously have similiar temporal devices that ST has other wise the relativistic time warp would effect things like the Suncrusher (which and almost do light without hyperdrive) and hyperdrive where they so far outstrip warp and transwarp as not to be funny,

They can fire torpedoes forward becuase of warp sustainer engines. They can also fire phasers backwards or angling backwards. Phasers only have a propagation speed of .99875c. One will note that torpedoes always take a second or five to strike their target no matter how close it is.

And while shots have been fired long distance the vast majority of combat is withing a few dozen kilometers.

No it isn't safe to say all the evidence points against it.

Might be so, but then again ISD are not as fragile as ST ships.

 

First they are unstable. Dr. Mozart was a fluke and only sustianable by combining two active programs together. Even then anything even slioghtly damaging could have unduid all the work. Like Moriarty the advance self aware AI was a fluke.

Would be a a problems if ST ships fought at C+, but they don't. Why? becuase their weapons are most effective at sublight.

Yet this has never been done. So obviously it is not feasible.

Except by tracor beams of course. Which SW has

No cloak is perfect. And SW ships have dealt with superior cloaks before.

Quantum torpedos only twice as powerful as Photon Torpedos. Since one photon has never showed to be more impressive than 64 megatons, it isn't going to match the shield that can take multiple 12.5 ton gigaton blasts.

Okay SW ships can emerge from Hyperspace 2 planetary diameters out and will do so at the speed they entered hyperspace. This could mean coming in so fast that Star base one is dust in less than a second.

Also noting is ST armory comes close to SW cap ship weaponry

Small problem side effect of Warp field is NO MASS. Menaing those projectiles would do 0 damage. Besides as we have seen the Photons drop to sublight well before impacting. Not only that but Warp has NO INERTIA.

No we can't argue with physics, however you forgot that in this case Star trek physics works against you.