Maybe if I post some questions about where the line is, that will help us find the line. For it to be a sexual experience, do both people involved have to know the other is masturbating? How close do they have to be — physically, emotionally, and spiritually — to each other? Do they have to be thinking about each other sexually? Do they have to be looking at each other? Do they have to touch each other? What kind of touch does it have to be? Xerxes, . . . What are the effects?! I'm not dumb. I have testicles. I know what testosterone is! And I don't think it builds up when ya don't ejaculate. Ya produce a fairly constant rate. Can ya show me an article proving me wrong? That doesn't prove it to me. I think sexual satisfaction was equally as accessible in the past as it is now. Prostitution is one of the oldest occupations. Show me an article proving to me that people masturbate more often today. (82 posts to go!)
"So you're saying that masturbation is necessarily good? If you crave an entire tub of ice-cream, then you should eat it? If you want to scratch at your chicken pox, then you should?" These activities lead to negative results. There is no scientific evidence that suggests masturbation is harmful to the body in any way, even doing it every day. And masturbation often calms you down afterwords (even though the heart rate is increased while doing it). It can also be good to clear the mind. If you are trying to get some work done, but you feeling kinda horny or whatever, releasing some pressure can be quite helpful. Plus, I still do not see the physical difference between masturbation and sexual intercourse (the effects of it, anyway). Your body is still having an orgasm, what is the difference if a vagina or a hand makes that orgasm happen?
This may be off topic... --- Sex is not "meant" for pleasure alone, rather the pleasure is meant for sex. If sex would not feel "good", no one would do it and all life would end. Children usually consider sex as something disgusting, something "lower", or "animal". But later the pleasure will win over free will and rational "thinking". Man has begun to use sexual feelings and food for personal happiness. Ice cream and pizza does not hang on trees like apples, and coca cola does not flow like the water from rivers. They are not healthy for us, because the world is supplied with everything we need. I believe there is an energy flowing in man, from the top of his head and down. Man leads this energy down because the "attraction" of earth pulls it, but if this energy could be lead upwards to the head, it would awaken "higher" organs in the brain and man could express and be aware of higher truth. I don't think it's good to choke feelings and it is not good to let them control oneself too much either. Rather, they should be "changed". When something bad happens people usually want to "change" it, they try to be positive and they try to understand that it might not have been that bad after all. This way, if we could understand the feelings, we could change them and control them how we like. They say that sexual activity calms down and clears the mind, but it is the sexual feelings which "distracts" us because we can't control them. If we "don't have" sexual feelings, our mind is clearer, like the mind of a child. But if we are able to control these feelings, we would "become" omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent. Like the mind of that which we call "God". We are able to control many things in our bodies and in our thoughts and feelings, but I think this Life which flows in us is a much greater power. This energy which flows in us has "nothing" to do with "procreation", but it is the Life itself! It only forms into sexual feelings because we lead the Life "down" into our bodies, into "lower" organs, so that the Life would be transferred into a new human being. I believe it is possible to lead the Life into our Self. However, we need to gain experience so that we could learn to understand ourselves and control our thoughts. If we can control our thoughts, we can control our feelings, and if we can control our feelings, we can control ourselves. It does not matter how true something is if it's not true for oneself, we all still need to experience everything so that we can understand the truth by ourselves.
Actually most species have gay members. Moose are bad for this during rutting season... Learn things before you speak about them =D Dogs... cats... moose... cows... bulls... humans We all have gayness lol
homosexuality is a normal part of the sexuality scale: some guys like really girl-like chicks, some like chicks that still find things gross but will do it themselves, some like total tomboys. and some like men. they cant help being attracted to guys, it is a perfectly normal thing despite only a small percentage of peopel doing it. more on spanking the monkey: it is much safer to wank than to have anonymous sex with chicks at a bar. it is easier to get than sex. you can do it anytime(your partner doesnt have to be there). there is no diff between wanking and having sex, it has the same effect. it is no-longer considered morally wrong. men who masturbate will detect penile or testicular cancer sooner. women can get more pleasure becuase their finger isnt going to roll over and go to sleep after its had its fun Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! .
Tiassa, Doesn't rape being a 'bad thing' clash with your first point?. Where do we draw the line between religious/social myths, and facts? (though I agree with you..) And if we're allowed to ask animals their opinions on self-rape, I don't think we should exempt them from point #2. They rape eachother all the time. Safer and more enjoyable? You have valid points, but the real problem runs deeper than not being able to satisfy your wife... Sex has lost its mystique. 'Getting some' has become such a mechanical act that people like yourself take it for granted. Nowadays, its more about orgasms than the whole sexual experience. Nope. 18 and single. Have you actually done anything to improve yourself into an attractive mate that women would want to sleep with? Have you honestly gotten over the futulity of raising a child with someone you hate? Admitted that it was as much your fault as it was hers? Sorry to tell you, but I've seen your pictures and lanky half-japanese potheads arent widely sought after in the sack. my point is - you've got as much potential as anyone else, but you've failed because take things like sex for granted. The real problem is this: Sure, the craving for other flesh comes around, but it goes away right after you're done with the other person. Some people crave the flesh. Thats all. So lets ask: is this really about maintaining part of your psyche, or about maintaining your unhealthy delusions on what sex should be? Athelwulf, Sure, but how are you going to verify these 'facts'? When you ask "What are the effects?!(of testosterone)" you clearly dont understand the way it functions anymore than I understand string theory, even though we've both probably 'heard of it'. Without consulting outside sources, answer me two simple questions: (1) What is a hormone? (2) How does a hormone work? Look, I have no reason to lie to you and I could care less if you believe me. You are right that levels remain fairly constant-its the basic principle of homeostastis- but 'constant' levels are much much higher for a person that doesn't masturbate, than one who does(generally..) Prove to me that: (a) You're not dumb. (b) You have testicles. (c) You know what testosterone is! The definition of sexual satisfaction has varied greatly across different times and cultures. Compare the views of maimonides, buddha and the kama sutra and you'll equally valid, but radically different points. Besides, for someone who probably hasn't experienced intercourse, I think its a long-shot to say that you know what 'sexual satisfaction' actually is. I doubt you've even finished puberty. So just think for yourself on these issues, athelwulf. Its your jizz, and beyond arguing science, I really don't care what others do with it. Aborted_Fetus, This is where you're wrong. There's all kinds of evidence, but very few conclusive results, and beyond those few experts agree on what exactly is considered 'healthy'. You have to come to your own conclusions from personal judgement. Not Jackingworld.com or biblethumpers.net. Right, sometimes I do it before watching a movie (depending on the movie.) But alcohol has the same 'loosening' affect on me with the added benefit of not killing off my precious neuro-chemicals (seratonin, acetylcholine) and endocrine responsiveness. So when spiderman is trying to stop a speeding a train, I'm loose, but I still get that 'rush'. For me, the differences are mostly psychological. But then you have to remember that aside from being 'holes' the vagina is chemically unique and has many complex muscle contractions that you just can't get from a hand. (not to say I know the vagina inside out...heh) What, I really like the point you bring up. I guess it depends on the person you ask, right? Some simply don't want to reach this god-like state; they'd rather have intense orgasms as a manifestation of their self-hate than admit theres a problem with sex for the sake of sex. You can't have it both ways.
vslayer, Don't ya mean either will not or later? I didn't know there was a penile cancer, and I didn't know that masturbation would reduce the risk of testicular cancer, but I did know that it reduced the risk of prostate cancer. Good thing for me, cuz I have a family history of prostate cancer. Xerxes, I never asked what the effects of testosterone were. I asked what are the ill effects of masturbation. Maybe we're having a misunderstanding here. (a) If ya read my other posts in other threads, ya could figure out by yerself that I'm not. (b) I could post a picture, but I'd get banned. Ya just hafta trust me on this one. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! (c) I obviously knew enough to know that it is secreted by the testicles. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! And can ya tell me once and for all . . . Are ya for or against masturbation? I kinda can't tell. (58 posts to go!)
If you don't understand the effects of testosterone, then you can't understand the effects of masturbation. Again: Without consulting outside sources, answer me two simple questions: (1) What is a hormone? (2) How does a hormone work? Then explaining the ill-effects of masturbation is pointless, because you need to know how hormones affect the body before I can provide of overview of how masturbation affects the body by manipulation of hormone levels. hahaha...I not seiously interested in the answers Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I was using rhetoric show you that you can't prove or disprove it without witnessing firstand and accounting for all possibilities. As for points (a) and (c) They're both moot. I understand that string theory says matter is made up of vibrating strings, but that doesn't prove I know where the idea originated or any of the math behind it. I don't. And I also don't know enough about you to judge your intelligence. You can't tell because I'm neither for, nor against it. There's a time for everything, and it depends on the person.
I think I understand the effects of testosterone just fine. Why are ya blowing this out of proportion? I'm asking a simple question, which is referring to what ya said earlier: Ya never tell me. What are the effects of excessive masturbation? Just tell me and we can be done with this, cuz right now we're off the topic. (56 posts to go!)
Because its frustrating trying to explain something which seems so simple to you, but is actually more complex. If you really understood, you wouldn't have to ask..but basically, without going into detail: -lower testosterone levels -messes with endocrine system and neuro-transmitters -decreased creativity (look at the above point) -less virile... basically..just scraping the surface...Sexuality is at the very core of the human body. You mess with it and you're messing with everything.
Ye'r most definitely blowing this simple question outta proportion. I'm done with it. Oh, and thanks for answering my question. Now, maybe we can get back to my original question: where's the line? (54 posts to go!)
athulwulf, i didnt say it reduced the risk of cancer, i s-aid your more likely to notice. it'd be hard not to if you suddunly hit a big cancerous lump
Frankly having read it all....I'm just interested in finding a wanking club or some people to wank with. Anyone with any ideas...I'm in Melbourne Australia....as you know we're all a lot of wankers....as for me..well my wife is dead....I don't want to go into the roundabout of finding a suitable woman...if there is one...so I wank...and after a while it gets lonely..if not boring..so to have someone else actually watching you & me watching them..well it would be a bit of a boost...and surprisingly to me it wouldn't make any difference if they were male or female....I am a confirmed hetro with absolutely no home tendencies or experiences. So, I guess for some people it's a matter of companionship.....lol anyway..if anyone in Melbourne reads this and wants to experiment along with me...send me an email...gammalite2001@yahoo.com
I was about to say group wanking is the gayest thing I've ever heard of. Then I remembered when me and my friends used to come back to one of our houses from parties drunk and have "races". It was totally hetero though honestly. When I was thinking of how gay group wanking is I envisioned gay dudes jerking off in front of each other going "mmm yeah, thats nice yeah" with gay voices. For us it was pure and simply a matter of needing to jerkoff after getting it on with hot teens all night and also needing to sleep in the same room. The "race" aspect can be attributed to the group format, but the jerking off just had to be done regardless. We weren't jerking off too eachother jerking off, we were thinking about females in order to accomplish the task, and I think that's the defining line between gay and ok. The same guy always won though. The prick could pull off 20 second loads. Then he'd mock the rest of us who were still going. Which seems wierd now but it was fair at the time. A silent "erotic" group wank would be unfathomably gay, but when you're laughing and trying to gross eachother out to improve your chances of being the first to climax I don't see how that could be considered gay. Aiming to have a group wank for the "thrill" of the group is gay, having to jerk off in the same room as other dudes due to circumstances isn't gay. Finding yourself particularly aroused by those unfortunate circumstances is pretty gay. Hmmm 20 second guy might have been gay now I think about it.
I'll tell you why: because gays determined the United States election, because most of America is Christian, and because most Christians believe homosexuality is deviant. Xerxes: You've told us what testosterone is, and you've told us that masturbation (for males) is bad, but you've offered no other evidence of how masturbation aversely affects testosterone levels. Perhaps if you were to post a link to a credible scientific study or cite your sources, Athel wouldn't be having such a hard time. You said you had no reason to lie, but ignorance is often reason enough. See, as an 18 year old, you lack cred, and we aren't going to take it on your word alone. I'd also say that males with higher testosterone levels would be more prone to masturbation, so despite the temporary (if any; you've yet to prove this to us) loss in hormonal levels, masturbation is really a symptom of more testosterone. This all seems to be off topic though. What was the question again? Is masturbating with the same gender in the room considered homosexual? Well first, let's define homosexual. I'd say that homosexuality is a sexual arousal caused by the same gender. However, let me be clear to point out that this is scalar and not dichotic. One isn't either completely gay or completely straight, you could have slightly gay tendencies, or slightly straight ones, or be ambivalent. Arousal is necessary for sex; otherwise things remain flaccid. The context of masturbation is greatly dependent upon whether the masturbators are aroused by the others in the room. If they are, then it's definitely a homosexual experience. Doc's experiences illustrate non-homosexual masturbation.
"You've told us what testosterone is, and you've told us that masturbation (for males) is bad" Go back and re-read. I said that masturbation in excess is bad for the body, and that most people who masturbate nowadays do so in excess. "but you've offered no other evidence of how masturbation aversely affects testosterone levels. Perhaps if you were to post a link to a credible scientific study or cite your sources, Athel wouldn't be having such a hard time" Haven't got the time to justify my position. Anyone with a decent background in bio can extrapolate my argument to see where I'm coming from(the endocrine thing?) Or-- if you're genuinely interested, make an effort to find the truth out for yourself, rather than pinballing between Athelwulf and myself. "I'd also say that males with higher testosterone levels would be more prone to masturbation, so despite the temporary (if any; you've yet to prove this to us) loss in hormonal levels, masturbation is really a symptom of more testosterone." I'd say the opposite. Males with lower testosterone usually lack tools such as aggression, and often have a harder time 'getting some,' making them more vulnerable to masturbate out of frustration. (of course lots of guys have proved me wrong. Masturbation is a choice for some, a compulsion for others.) And you do know, it does come down to more than just testosterone levels? A lot of guys do it for environmental reasons such as stress or boredome. They might not have a place to channel their libido. I wouldn't trust anyone on a message board. Not truthseeker, not the village elder Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!, not even Porfiry. Regardless of age. But anyways, my goal isn't to show you 'the light'. I'm telling you what I've learnt from my many sources and experiences. <a href="http://www.google.com">The truth is out there</a>
It's a good thing ya remembered that. I would've become frustrated had ya said group masturbation was gay. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Probably . . . But he also could've been a premature ejaculator. Consider all possibilities. No. The original question was "When does masturbating in the presense of another person who is also masturbating become a sexual experience with that person?". But thanks for noticing that we were off track, and for trying to get us back on track. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Define what is excess masturbation in yer opinion.
Do you know what an adjective is? The word 'excess' is an example of an adjective. Its dependant upon the subject. Its completely subjective. I use the word excess because masturbation (the subject) is a form of self-indulgence and is therefore decadent. There isn't any hard definition for excess masturbation. It depends on the individual.
