Conversion to atheist Judaism?

[Adstar]

I didn't mean to imply they were being mean or that they cannot be desperate or unhappy, it must be hard to be without faith in a society based on one. I dislike the pretence

Take the Christmas tree for instance. Is it a requirement of Christianity? would one not be Christian if they did not put up a tree? I don't think so.

But look at all the stretches that atheists will go to, to justify putting up one. Its a pagan tradition, its got nothing to do with Jesus. Its blah blah blah blah blah

Who cares? You want to put up a fricking tree, put up the tree. Just don't call yourself a cultural Christian because you want to play Santa Claus too.

Similarly, the atheist Jew who's lighting the menorrah on Hanukkah? You don't believe YHWH saved the Jews from the Pharoah? No archaeological evidence of exile? Its all mythology? Guess what? No contest there. The issue is one of faith in God. You don't have it, fine, light the fricking menorrah and put it in your window. Just don't call yourself Jewish because you did it.

Funny topic. it is ironic for me to read.

One athiest likes Christmas and celebrates it and thinks he is a kind of athiest Christian ( Thinks he is an athiest influenced by the cultural influence of Christianity on the culture he was born into)

One Christian refuses to celebrate Christmas because he believes it is a pagan celebration that has infiltrated and made a spiritual whore of those who do.

One Atheist pacifist loves the teachings of Jesus about turning their cheek and loving there enemies, they follow his teachings without believing in God or Him as the Messiah.

One christian joins the army and kills the enemy of his nation and spends the rest of his life taking part in yearly military parades to honour his comrades and receive the adulation of a like minded public for killing their enemies.

What a messed up world. So many blurred lines, So much confusion and deception.

I don't put up any tree's or play santa (an anagram of satan) If an atheist thinks he is playing at being a Christian by putting up a tree and playing santa claus then i pity the poor doubly deceived sod.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[pjdude1219]

I was wondering when you would add your arrogance to this topic adstar

[Adstar]

I was wondering when you would add your arrogance to this topic adstar

I do not say what i say with arogance, That is your own projecting of an intention upon me.

I say what i say with sadness.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

PS: when i said it was a funny topic. i meant it in the spirit of:
"if one does not laugh one will cry"

[S.A.M.]

I don't think so.

And frankly, if you questioned me in the tone that you write here, I would consider you hostile and lacking understanding. I would be unwilling to discuss my religious efforts with you, and I would likely become defensive and make various simplistic statements which you would criticize severely.
- Which is in roundabout what is happening in your perception of other people's religiosity anyway.


If you changed your attitude toward questioning these things, you might also notice different answers than you have been noticing so far.

I understand, the attitude is abrasive, but this is a science forum, religion is open to mockery and derision. Or so I am told.

In fact, I have been called out for pointing out when viciousness is used against beliefs. So I am anxious to see how it works.

I am careful of course to only aim my abrasiveness at those who defend such attitudes.

[pjdude1219]

I do not say what i say with arogance, That is your own projecting of an intention upon me.

No you honestly believe you can dicate what is christianity to christian faiths

Your condemning people as not christian for not following your rigid and none biblical interpertations of christianity. Your telling the faiths that ushered in christianity they aren't christian that is the height of arrogance.

[S.A.M.]

I don't think he was being arrogant, he pointed out what passes for atheism in society and also what passes for Christianity. The bells and whistles are not what the core belief is about.

When people spend thousands of dollars on Christmas presents and ignore their social responsibilities, thats not really what being a Christian is about

[Giambattista]

No you honestly believe you can dicate what is christianity to christian faiths

Your condemning people as not christian for not following your rigid and none biblical interpertations of christianity.[/QUOTE]

I think, rather than rely on Adstar, Jesus should cut the crap and do the teaching himself, in person.

[pjdude1219]

I don't think he was being arrogant, he pointed out what passes for atheism in society and also what passes for Christianity. The bells and whistles are not what the core belief is about.

Sorry sam saying beliefs that are part of christianity for centries and him say you aren't christian for having those beliefs is arrogant.

[S.A.M.]

Sorry sam saying beliefs that are part of christianity for centries and him say you aren't christian for having those beliefs is arrogant.

Which beliefs are you talking about?

One athiest likes Christmas and celebrates it and thinks he is a kind of athiest Christian ( Thinks he is an athiest influenced by the cultural influence of Christianity on the culture he was born into)

One Christian refuses to celebrate Christmas because he believes it is a pagan celebration that has infiltrated and made a spiritual whore of those who do.

One Atheist pacifist loves the teachings of Jesus about turning their cheek and loving there enemies, they follow his teachings without believing in God or Him as the Messiah.

One christian joins the army and kills the enemy of his nation and spends the rest of his life taking part in yearly military parades to honour his comrades and receive the adulation of a like minded public for killing their enemies.

What a messed up world. So many blurred lines, So much confusion and deception.

I don't put up any tree's or play santa (an anagram of satan) If an atheist thinks he is playing at being a Christian by putting up a tree and playing santa claus then i pity the poor doubly deceived sod.

What is it you disagree with?

[pjdude1219]

Which beliefs are you talking about?

lets just say I'm more familar with adstar views on christianity so I see this post in a different light.

What is it you disagree with?

all of it

[quadraphonics]

That is a form of black and white reasoning, in Islam religion is whatever you say it is, generally, as long as God is in the picture somewhere.

So the (observant) Jews, Christians, etc.: they're all Muslims, then?

[iceaura]

What is it you disagree with?

The implications of this:

If an atheist thinks he is playing at being a Christian by putting up a tree and playing santa claus then i pity the poor doubly deceived sod.

I don't think there are more than a couple of atheists, if any at all, who think any such thing. I've never met or heard of anyone like that. It's an empty category, a fundie's delusion, and it's central to adstar's point.

The root problem is that the Winter Solstice, as a holiday, is not a legit possession of the Christian church. It's usurping was originally, and is ongoing, the sort of cultural imperialism that the critics of Western colonialism are vociferous about in other contexts. If the Crusaders had done something like this to Eid, I think we'd be getting a different tone of post from the theists around here.

The bells and whistles are not what the core belief is about.

So this is "bells and whistles":

pacifist loves the teachings of Jesus about turning their cheek and loving there enemies, they follow his teachings

and this is "core beliefs":

believing in God or Him as the Messiah.
- - - -
I don't put up any tree's or play santa (an anagram of satan)

[wynn]

I understand, the attitude is abrasive, but this is a science forum, religion is open to mockery and derision. Or so I am told.

In fact, I have been called out for pointing out when viciousness is used against beliefs. So I am anxious to see how it works.

I am careful of course to only aim my abrasiveness at those who defend such attitudes.

Okay.

[wynn]

If an atheist thinks he is playing at being a Christian by putting up a tree and playing santa claus then i pity the poor doubly deceived sod.

I don't think there are more than a couple of atheists, if any at all, who think any such thing. I've never met or heard of anyone like that. It's an empty category, a fundie's delusion, and it's central to adstar's point.

My parents, for example, nominally atheists, would set up the New Year's tree on December 31. Specifically not on December 24, because that would mean they are Christian, and they wouldn't want to identify themselves as such.

When I was little, I was always eager to get the tree, and I had to wait until December 31. One year, I really pressed my father to bring a tree - because so many people around us already had it and decorating it is so much fun. He did, and then he and my mother had a fight over it - that we are not Christians, therefore we should not set up the tree before December 31.

Such a situation is not uncommon where I come from. Some people apparently do think doing some things that externally look like something Christians do, would make them (appear) Christian. Some of these people specifically avoid those things, in order not to appear Christian. Others do those things in order to appear Christian. But the belief that drives them is the same.

[GeoffP]

So the (observant) Jews, Christians, etc.: they're all Muslims, then?

Whew! No more oppression, then. Someone should call al-Ahzar.

[Crunchy Cat]

But what does it mean when someone practices what they do not believe?

It means they're honest. Such practice satiates various aspects of human psychology.

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Not all Jews follow Judaism?

Not all jews are religious. Being jewish is a civilization, a people as well as a religion so ones 'jewishness' is not dependent on simply adhering to jewish religious law.

Does one stop being Indian if they give up being a hindu or muslim?

Not at all so I don't see why this would be the same with Jews.

[Adstar]

No you honestly believe you can dicate what is christianity to christian faiths

Your condemning people as not christian for not following your rigid and none biblical interpretations of christianity. Your telling the faiths that ushered in christianity they aren't christian that is the height of arrogance.

Jesus ushered in Christianity. His Word is the Authority. I have been told myself only just recently by a group that i am a false Christian because i have not given up using money. I took it as it was given by people concerned for me who where giving me a message they believe was true, they where trying to convict me. I don't scream "arrogance" or How dare you push so and so upon me. People who do that are covering up their lack of confidence in there position.

It does not affect me when people say this or that about what i believe. I take what they say and investigate it if i have not previously had thoughts on it.

It really is pathetic to scream "arrogance" a cheap one liner accusation that in the end means jack all and adds nothing to any discussion.

Our reaction to the information we receive is our choice believe it or not. We can chose to react with hate we can chose to react with concern for the other we can react with sadness if we so choose. We can even just be nonchalant and shrug it off. People who chose to react like you did, do so because they desire to react that way, some people love spitting out venom.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

I have always wondered why they made such a fuss of the holocaust ...

That's a stupid fucking comment even from you!

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Its why atheist societies have a vacuum that religious societies don't.

What vacuum? Please explain. A chinese person is still a chinese person whether they are religious or not.

Michael Mao was never 'worshipped' or personified as a deity.