Dartmoor Beast Identified As New Species Of European Giant Hyrax?

**common_sense_seeker** · 08-09-11, 04:33 AM

Originally Posted by Captain Kremmen

Today, Watu Simba (were-lion) stories are used to scare misbehaving children. But in the ’40s, the Watu Simba were young women who had been enslaved by East African witch doctors. They were forcefully addicted to drugs to make them compliant, forced to live in tight cages, and had their foot tendons reshaped to give them the gait of a stalking lion. The witch doctors would then send them out as assassins. The Watu Simba wore the skin of a lion and were outfitted with prosthetic claws while hunting. Most shockingly, they were primarily fed the meat of their victims. They killed approximately 300 people over the course of four years and continued to kill even after the witch doctors were captured and hanged.
http://mahou.wordpress.com/2009/10/09/watu-simba/

Dartmoor beasts in fact.
Maybe CSS is on to something.

Intersting stuff. I didn't know about the "were-lion" translation. Reminds me of the manes of male dogmen which are often reported. It's also worth mentioning the legendary Nandi Bear. Ahh, of course, it's not the lions that are attacking people, it's the Nandi bears! a.k.a giant hyrax

This link is very good Nandi Bear Encounters

"It was almost on the line when I first saw it and at that time it had already seen me and was making off at a right angle to the line ... As I got closer to the animal I saw it was not a hyena. At first I saw it nearly broadside on: it then looked about as high as a lion. In color it was tawny--about like a black-maned lion--with very shaggy long hair. It was short and thickset in the body, with high withers, and had a short neck and stumpy nose. It did not turn to look at me, but loped off--running with its forelegs and with both hind legs rising at the same time. As I got alongside it, it was about forty or fifty yards away and I noticed it was very broad across the rump, had very short ears, and had no tail that I could see. As its hind legs came out of the grass I noticed the legs were very shaggy right down to the feet, and that the feet seemed large..."

"I was travelling with a cousin on the Uasingishu just after the Nandi expedition, and, of course, long before there was any settlement up there. We had been camped ... near the Mataye and were marching towards the Sirgoit Rock when we saw the beast ... I saw a large animal sitting up on its haunches no more than 30 yards away. Its attitude was just that of a bear at the 'Zoo' asking for buns, and I should say it must have been nearly 5 feet high ... it dropped forward and shambled away towards the Sirgoit with what my cousin always describes as a sort of sideways canter… I snatched my rifle and took a snapshot at it as it was disappearing among the rocks, and, though I missed it, it stopped and turned its head round to look at us ... In size it was, I should say, larger than the bear that lives in the pit at the 'Zoo' and it was quite as heavily built. The fore quarters were very thickly furred, as were all four legs, but the hind quarters were comparatively speaking smooth or bare ... the head was long and pointed and exactly like that of a bear ... I have not a very clear recollection of the ears beyond the fact that they were small, and the tail, if any, was very small and practically unnoticeable. The color was dark ..."

This bit of quote "..but loped off--running with its forelegs and with both hind legs rising at the same time" is a perfect match with the Dartmoor beast in loping run footage. I'm going to email Dr Karl Shuker with this straight away..

Here's another interesting link Frontiers of Zoology

**common_sense_seeker** · 08-09-11, 07:28 AM

Here's another great site by Dr Karl Shuker (Mar 2011) TARZAN AND THE NANDI BEAR (1963)

**common_sense_seeker** · 08-09-11, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by common_sense_seeker

'Swamp monster' threatens Auckland rail project

The clues are all there imo. They must have made it to New Zealand.

More from New Zealand, the Kopuwai a dog-faced maero thanks to Karl Shuker DOG-FACED OGRES AND TREE-CLIMBING MAN-BEASTS

**Captain Kremmen** · 08-09-11, 07:34 AM

The Simba notice below is about real lions.

The article I quoted was about were-lions from the 1940's.
Watu Simba means man-lion, just as were-wolf means man-wolf.
It has nothing much to do with the notice except it shares a couple of words.

Modern Africans would not have an official notice about were lions.
Though I can envisage some of their Christian churches producing them, given their treatment of so-called witches.
Perhaps not. There are no were-lions in the Bible, fortunately.

Yes it is interesting, because it shows how religious leaders actively make events fit in with their religious beliefs, and will construct events if they do not spontaneously occur.

**common_sense_seeker** · 08-09-11, 07:38 AM

They would say it's real lions though wouldn't they. Everyone knows of the ferocious nandi bear in Africa at a guess..The people will know the difference, the ones that want to know anyway..

**Captain Kremmen** · 08-09-11, 07:40 AM

Could you read what I posted.
All you are doing is reiterating.

Would you be satisfied if they did a DNA test of the saliva from the animal bite?

**Captain Kremmen** · 08-09-11, 07:52 AM

Re the DNA tests
........................................
Take your time.............................

**common_sense_seeker** · 08-10-11, 03:24 AM

Originally Posted by Captain Kremmen

Could you read what I posted.
All you are doing is reiterating.

Would you be satisfied if they did a DNA test of the saliva from the animal bite?

Yes, I would be a lot more satisfied. The trouble is, if there was a DNA test which didn't fit the pre-assumption of lion attack, then it's likely to be dismissed as an outside curiosity, or a case of contamination. You have to be open to the possiblity of a nandi bear attack to be see the possible evidence.

What's your reason for more lions attacking people on a waning moon then?

**Captain Kremmen** · 08-10-11, 03:51 PM

Try this:

Lions hunt mostly at night, because they can see in the dark and their prey can't.
As it gets closer to a full moon, the prey can see the lion coming, so they run away.
By the time it gets to a waning moon, the lion is so hungry that it will attack people instead of its normal prey.

Make sense?

**MissyVenom** · 08-10-11, 04:05 PM

There was an episode on 'fact or faked' about the beast of dartmore (Series 1, episode 3 or 4, cant remember).. very interesting it was too.
A Lady by the name of Lucinda Reid came forward to say it was her Newfoundland dog Troy and i do have to admit it looks a lot like it, Can not post a link to the article yet i do believe as this is only my second post, but if you google 'Beast of Dartmoor 'is my pet dog' on BBC news site it will come up.

**common_sense_seeker** · 08-11-11, 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by Captain Kremmen

Try this:

Lions hunt mostly at night, because they can see in the dark and their prey can't.
As it gets closer to a full moon, the prey can see the lion coming, so they run away.
By the time it gets to a waning moon, the lion is so hungry that it will attack people instead of its normal prey.

Make sense?

No, not really, it doesn't have a ring of truth about it. Why don't more lions attack on a full moon or near to full moon then? Lions are also quick to learn that humans are a big threat to them and carry spears, a.k.a kalahari bushmen who walk unimpeded through lions dressed in red with tall spears showing, and guns. Lions aren't shown to be "starving hungry" on a waning moon, anymore than other time of the month. You're hypothesis is therefore nothing more than clutching at straws.

**common_sense_seeker** · 08-11-11, 05:51 AM

Originally Posted by MissyVenom

There was an episode on 'fact or faked' about the beast of dartmore (Series 1, episode 3 or 4, cant remember).. very interesting it was too.
A Lady by the name of Lucinda Reid came forward to say it was her Newfoundland dog Troy and i do have to admit it looks a lot like it, Can not post a link to the article yet i do believe as this is only my second post, but if you google 'Beast of Dartmoor 'is my pet dog' on BBC news site it will come up.

This an urban myth and a fallacy. Troy is pure chocolate whilst the 'beast' is grey and dark patches. It's clear to see. Also the photographer was a professional animal trainer and said it had a strange gait, just as reported in the nandi bear cases.

**Captain Kremmen** · 08-11-11, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by common_sense_seeker

No, not really, it doesn't have a ring of truth about it. Why don't more lions attack on a full moon or near to full moon then?

Pfft.
Why do I have to spell things out so much?
Think!

I explained all that.
When it's at the full moon the Lion isn't hungry enough yet to attack a human.
They will only attack a human when they are desperately hungry.

The moons phases cover 28 days.
Lets say the full moon is at day 14.
Up to day 10, and after day 18 the moon is not full enough for the prey to see the lion attacking. It can't see where it is, so the lion can easily catch and eat its normal prey.

After day 10, the lion starts to get hungry.
Why? Because now, once the lioness has broken cover, the prey can see where it is.

It is OK for a few days, because she ate on day 10.
But on day 16-18, she is getting really ravenous.

At this point, the moon is waning , but the night is not yet dark enough to render blind its natural prey.
The desperate lion takes the risk of attacking a human, which, being a smart lion, she knows is fraught with danger.

QED.

**common_sense_seeker** · 08-11-11, 06:39 AM

Sounds like poppycock to me. Do you have a shred of scientific data to support your claims?

I have a better Idea. Why not put your money where your mouth is? I'll email the police station of the nearest major town and ask for a good saliva sample taken from the victim of the next lion attack for DNA analysis. I'll offer the equivalent of £220 for their time and cooperation if the sample comes with a veterinary certificate of authenticity. Are you willing to take a bet on the outcome?

**Captain Kremmen** · 08-11-11, 07:03 AM

They won't do it.
They'll think you are some kind of loony.

Why £220 anyway?

**Captain Kremmen** · 08-11-11, 07:06 AM

Also, lions have probably been talking to Hyraxes to get tips from them.
Their DNA may be contaminated.

**common_sense_seeker** · 08-11-11, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Captain Kremmen

They won't do it.
They'll think you are some kind of loony.

Why £220 anyway?

It'd have to be facilitated through Dr Karl Shuker who is surely odds on to take an interest in the research. The samples would still have to be analysed by a professional lab though. The Centre for Fortean Zoology know of a Dutch team who they've worked with to do DNA testing on jaguar hair found in UK woods where regular sightings have taken place. They'd be ideal and affordable candidates for the job imo.

P.S £220 just hapens to be all I can afford right at this minute

**common_sense_seeker** · 08-11-11, 08:27 AM

This bear running at high speed brings it's back legs up at the same time, just as described for the nandi bear and seen in the Dartmoor beast video clip

Black bear running at high speed

**Captain Kremmen** · 08-11-11, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by common_sense_seeker

It'd have to be facilitated through Dr Karl Shuker who is surely odds on to take an interest in the research.

Karl Shuker, the mad cryptologist.
That sounds fair.

Unfortunately I have only got £2.24 on me.
Plus a couple of Euros.
Will that do?
If so, you're on.

I would prefer you to get the naturalist David Bellamy to do the DNA tests,
but he is probably busy disproving Global warming.
Contact the Shuker immediately.

**Giambattista** · 08-11-11, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by common_sense_seeker

Yes, I would be a lot more satisfied. The trouble is, if there was a DNA test which didn't fit the pre-assumption of lion attack, then it's likely to be dismissed as an outside curiosity, or a case of contamination. You have to be open to the possiblity of a nandi bear attack to be see the possible evidence.

What's your reason for more lions attacking people on a waning moon then?

You just love cryptids don't you?

Weren't you claiming that some digitally hoaxed UFO video was actually a pterodactyl or similar creature?

If I weren't so lazy, I'd post a link.