Will Scott Brown Kill ObamaCare?

[pjdude1219]

There's nothing wrong with the term,

you see nothing wrong with a term that's a lie?

Obamacare. He's the driving force behind the bill.

actually he he made pladges to other dem candidates to do it for their suypport. while he cares their are other far more involved in it.

He's the reason they're trying to ram it thru before his state of the union speech. He wants to be able to brag about it. In fact, he wants to be able to brag about it so badly that he doesn't even care what's in the bill anymore. So long as some bill called healthcare reform passes he'll be happy.

or maybe unlike the republicans he gives a fuck about the average american

[madanthonywayne]

or maybe unlike the republicans he gives a fuck about the average american

Then he should show that he cares about them by paying attention to their desires and killing this shitty bill.

[pjdude1219]

Then he should show that he cares about them by paying attention to their desires and killing this shitty bill.

why its an improvment over the current system. not much but it is a step in the right direction.

[madanthonywayne]

why its an improvment over the current system. not much but it is a step in the right direction.

Better in what way? Every study I've seen indicates that costs will increase significantly under this plan.

By the way, have you seen the latest polls?

Monday, January 18
Poll Results Spread
Politico/InAdv Brown 52, Coakley 43 Brown +9
PJM/CrossTarget (R) Brown 52, Coakley 42 Brown +10
PPP (D) Brown 51, Coakley 46 Brown +5
ARG Brown 52, Coakley 45 Brown +7
Daily Kos/R2000 Brown 48, Coakley 48 Tie

RCP

[iceaura]

That doesn't make it his bill. He has had very little input into the bill, at any stage.
”
During the Congress's Christmas break Obama called several congressman and senators of the democratic party to the White House to discuss how to get the Healthcare bill Forced through Congress by his State of the Union speech in Febuary.-ABC News and the Associated Press.

So?

Better in what way? Every study I've seen indicates that costs will increase significantly under this plan.

By the way, have you seen the latest polls?

The sight of the American public voting for the exact political faction and ideology that created the disaster they fear, wish to avoid, and claim to be voting against, is too familiar to be worth analyzing again - but it's nothing to celebrate.

It's a classic tragic form - and the Greeks who first immortalized it on stage were also a democratic polity of a kind. Interesting.

[joepistole]

Better in what way? Every study I've seen indicates that costs will increase significantly under this plan.

]

That is because you are only looking at industry sponsored studies that are designed and intended to scare people rather than reflect an honest assesment. You should use the gold standard, the Congressional Budget Office's study which shows that the Democrat healthcare bills reduce the deficit.

[madanthonywayne]

That is because you are only looking at industry sponsored studies that are designed and intended to scare people rather than reflect an honest assesment. You should use the gold standard, the Congressional Budget Office's study which shows that the Democrat healthcare bills reduce the deficit.

Earlier in this thread I referenced a study by an official from Medicare which projected costs would significantly increase under this plan. I'll find the link for you later, right now it's well past time to hit the sack. Good night.

[joepistole]

Earlier in this thread I referenced a study by an official from Medicare which projected costs would significantly increase under this plan. I'll find the link for you later, right now it's well past time to hit the sack. Good night.

Ex officials can be bought by the industry as well. The question isdoes the Social Security Administration agree with the validity of the study? Does any independent group agree with the vericity of the "study"?

[Baron Max]

Ex officials can be bought by the industry as well.

Agreed.

The question isdoes the Social Security Administration agree with the validity of the study? Does any independent group agree with the vericity of the "study"?

But wait, Joe, we all know that those officials can be bought, too, right? So now what, Joe? Ah, I know ....we can't believe any-fuckin'-body about anything! See, Joe? See how it all seems to come down to what one believes and what one does not believe? With everyone in Washington, and in government in general, who knows what to believe?

Oh, don't worry, Joe, we all know what YOU believe!

Baron Max

[joepistole]

Agreed.

But wait, Joe, we all know that those officials can be bought, too, right? So now what, Joe? Ah, I know ....we can't believe any-fuckin'-body about anything! See, Joe? See how it all seems to come down to what one believes and what one does not believe? With everyone in Washington, and in government in general, who knows what to believe?

Oh, don't worry, Joe, we all know what YOU believe!

Baron Max

And what was that about Baron Max?

The issue is credibility. The healthcare indusry has bought and paid for skewed studies using flawed data many times before....excluding data in order to get the desired results.

CBO studies are much more straight forward.

[madanthonywayne]

And what was that about Baron Max?

The issue is credibility. The healthcare indusry has bought and paid for skewed studies using flawed data many times before....excluding data in order to get the desired results.

CBO studies are much more straight forward.

Joe, what mechanism is their in the bill to reduce costs? The bill theoretically will reduce payments to physicians under medicare by 25%, but you know damned well that won't happen. The only other cost savings in the bill that I"m aware of is the old "fraud and waste" bullshit. Again, those kind of claims rarely materialize.

[joepistole]

Joe, what mechanism is their in the bill to reduce costs? The bill theoretically will reduce payments to physicians under medicare by 25%, but you know damned well that won't happen. The only other cost savings in the bill that I"m aware of is the old "fraud and waste" bullshit. Again, those kind of claims rarely materialize.

http://www.khi.org/news/2009/dec/21/...ill-expert-sa/

“Really, out of the 2,000 page piece of legislation, 600 (pages) are devoted to insurance expansion but about 900 are devoted to delivery system reform.”

But the proposed changes in how care is delivered and paid for have gotten less media attention than provisions to expand coverage to the tens of millions of uninsured Americans, Barnes said. Also, supporters of the bill have struggled to effectively counter charges leveled early and often by opponents that the measure leaves the important issue of cost containment to another day.

“It’s difficult to explain how we’re going to move away from reimbursing providers based on fee-for-service to value-based purchasing,” Barnes said, referring to proposals that would tie provider payments to quality-of-care measures.

“That’s a pretty wonky concept,” she said. “And yet that’s exactly what the lion’s share of the delivery-system reform is attempting to do, change how we’re paying providers.”

The long list of system-reform and cost-saving provisions in the bill includes:

• A requirement that quality outcome measures be developed for determining how well doctors and hospitals are treating 10 acute and chronic diseases.

• A requirement that the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services develop a strategic framework for collecting and reporting data on provider performance.

• Development of a Web site to allow consumers to compare physicians based on outcomes, patient safety, patient satisfaction and continuity of care.

• Demonstration projects to test whether incentives will help guide Medicare beneficiaries to high-quality providers

• $200 million in grants to small businesses to start and operate wellness programs.

• Incentive payments for doctors who obtain education and training beyond what is required to maintain their board certifications.

• New provisions for testing payment and delivery system innovations developed by the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation.

• A program to encourage hospitals and federal safety-net clinics to form collaborative care networks to provide comprehensive services to low income populations.

Many of the system reforms are pilot projects, but not the kind that most people typically think of, Barnes said.

“These pilot programs have teeth,” she said. “They aren’t just things that will happen as examples across the country and then nothing else will happen. They by and large have the real ability to become the new lay of the land so long as they work.”

[spidergoat]

Sorry, but its the inds and dems that are starting to lack faith in Obamas hope and change, the reps didn't have it to begin with.

And deliberate incompetence? The reps red flags on Obama were generally correct, just look at who he has hired during his administration. The only Deliberate incompetence I see is the willfull turning a blind eye towards many of Obamas associations and voting for him anyway.

I thought he was "associated" with socialism. So where the hell is it? I want my socialized medicine, damnit!

[Omega133]

So?

What do you mean so? Did you not read it? He wants it passed so bad(AKA he has a lot of input) that he pulls them up to talk about it.

[iceaura]

He wants it passed so bad(AKA he has a lot of input) that he pulls them up to talk about it.

Wanting it passed and having input into its content and composition are two very different things.

[navigator]

Wanting it passed and having input into its content and composition are two very different things.

If Obama had both of those it would be called leadership, so far it appears Obama is nothing more than a grand campaigner.

[Omega133]

Wanting it passed and having input into its content and composition are two very different things.

He asked them up there to insert things and get it passed by the time of the State of the Union Address. He does want it passed, and he has had input into its content.

[Norsefire]

I thought he was "associated" with socialism. So where the hell is it? I want my socialized medicine, damnit!

That's no surprise. You want productive entrepreneurs to pay for your lazy ass to get 'free' stuff.

What a shame.

If you want it, then YOU pay for it, with everyone else that wants it. Quit trying to force shit on people, because that's immoral.

[Omega133]

I thought he was "associated" with socialism. So where the hell is it? I want my socialized medicine, damnit!

You won't have to wait long, Universal(Federalized) Healthcare is one of the steps to Communism.

[navigator]

You won't have to wait long, Universal(Federalized) Healthcare is one of the steps to Communism.

Looks like Scott Brown is going to win, hopefully he can stop this debacle. But you are right, my reference was more directed to the communists and the more radical left wing people he surrounded himself with.