Arab World

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Michael, Jan 12, 2010.

  1. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    What do you think of the term: "Arab World"? Is it really necessary? Is it even appropriate?

    It supposedly refers to those countries that speak Arabic, but I wonder if it's not more commonly thought of, as those countries that have a lot of people who think that they are "Arab". Whatever that is....I think the term perpetuates race memes - in this case that there is an "Arab" race. Which is not true. There's isn't an Arab race. Also, I was thinking, linguistically, do we say: the "English World" for all the countries that speak English. I don't think so. We don't say the "French World" for all the countries that speak French. When we refer to the Chinese we don't say "The Chinese World".


    I think the term "Arab World" has racial connotations and the truth is there's a lot of different people in countries whose official language is Arabic and there's a lot of diversity which can not be summed up with "Arab World". If anything, the term perpetuates stereotypes, causes confusion and probably really isn't appropriate when it is coined. I don't think it should be used in the media either.
     
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  3. Pinwheel Banned Banned

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    What about the "Arab Street"? Same thing surely.
     
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  5. krazedkat IQ of "Highly Gifted"-"Genius" Registered Senior Member

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    SUPPOSEDLY Iran is part of the "arab" world, however they speak Persian.
     
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  7. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    What about 'Western world'? Aren't westerners typically Caucasians?
    And then you have the 'Eastern world'.. What should we call the Arab world? Middle world?

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  8. John99 Banned Banned

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    Or Asia.
     
  9. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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  10. Pinwheel Banned Banned

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    Middle East.
     
  11. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    That's what I call it. It was a joke.. lol
     
  12. Pinwheel Banned Banned

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    But then what of the Arab World? If they are in the Middle East, then what about Israel? Are they in the Middle West......
     
  13. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Huh? They are a Western-like country in the Middle East. Or at least, that's how it's being portrayed.
     
  14. krazedkat IQ of "Highly Gifted"-"Genius" Registered Senior Member

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    Lots of countries in the East are western-like.
     
  15. Pinwheel Banned Banned

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    Australia? New Zealand?
     
  16. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Language and self-identified ethnicity are certainly a part of it. For example, neither the Palestinians nor the Lebanese are Arab peoples by strict analysis of their DNA and history. The Palestinians appear to be descended from the Canaanites who chose not to adopt Judaism when it arose, and the Lebanese are arguably of similar origin--both being more closely related by "blood" to the Jews than to the Arabs. Nonetheless in modern times both peoples regard themselves as Arabs.

    While in strict anthropological terms there have been no true "races" of humans since transportation technology made it so easy for the populations to mingle and intermarry and turned us all into what we dog breeders call "mongrels" in our own work, the fact is, at least from an outside perspective, that there is a reasonably well-defined community of people who regard themselves as Arabs.

    The term "the Arab world" is a construct of the West. It refers to a hegemony of nations whose people speak Arabic and practice Islam, and whose politics include all or most of the following: suspicion of Western values, hostility toward Israel, resistance to transcendence over old ways, minimization of diversity, second-class status for women, religion as a major factor in civil life, and solidarity against the United States, the nation they regard as "the Great Satan."

    By definition, "the Arab world" excludes the majority of the world's Muslims, who live in Indonesia, Nigeria, Pakistan and Bangladesh and are not Arabs by any measure. It also excludes the Iranians, who are an Indo-European people closely related to the Indians, as well as the Turks, Albanians, Kurds, and many other Muslim people inside and outside the Middle East.

    Nonetheless it defines a large, nearly continuous swath of land from North Africa to Southwestern Asia, with discontinuities such as Israel and Ethiopia.
    No, and one reason is that "English" refers to England and not just its language, whereas "Arab" refers to the entire ethnic group, not just the people who are customarily referred to as Saudis. Another reason is that there is no hegemony of anglophone countries. The U.K. is a member of the European Union and neither it nor Australia and New Zealand have as much in common with the United States as Egypt has in common with Libya or Syria. The only anglophone hegemony is the USA and tiny (in population) Canada.
    Again, it's because those countries do not form a hegemony, i.e., there is no "French World" no matter how you try do define it.
    Duh? We don't need another name, we just call it "China." Neither Taiwan nor Singapore, the other more-or-less major countries whose people speak Chinese, would agree to being considered part of a Chinese hegemony, and for good reason!
    You must be an American because these days it's fashionable in my country to complain that everything has racial connotations.
    To quote myself: "It refers to a hegemony of nations whose people speak Arabic and practice Islam, and whose politics include all or most of the following: suspicion of Western values, hostility toward Israel, resistance to transcendence over old ways, minimization of diversity, second-class status for women, religion as a major factor in civil life, and solidarity against the United States, the nation they regard as the Great Satan." I did not say that they all have every one of those characteristics, but they all have almost every one of them. These are the characteristics that are important in political discourse because they shape world politics. Which would you argue over? Iraq was the only secular pro-Western country in the entire "Arab World," and Backward Baby Bush destroyed it.
    Good grief it certainly is not! The Iranians are Persians and Shiite Muslims, and they would very much like to end the hegemony of the Sunni Muslim Arabs. That's why they want influence over Iraq. The Iraqis may be Arabs but they are the only other Shiite nation of any size. It was ruled by a Sunni minority, but the Bush Dynasty overthrew it.
    The Middle East includes Turkey, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, certainly the unstable Muslim Russian regions like Chechnya, and arguably even the surrounded Christian nations like Armenia and Georgia. None of those people are Arabs.

    Don't forget that what we see in the 21st century as an Arab-dominated Middle East was once the Ottoman Empire. The Ottomans are a Mongolic people, not Semitic like the Arabs.

    Just as the "Western World" is not monolithic and there is considerable diversity among its nations and its peoples, nonetheless it cannot be argued that a Western World does not exist as a cultural, political and economic entity. The same is true of the "Arab World."
     
  17. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    I don't know about you, but when I hear "Western World" I think it referrers to the USA

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    Seriously, it seems to refer to democracies originating in the West. Case in point: Depending on the discussion, the Japanese are included in the "Western World".

    That said, yeah, maybe we should get rid of the term "Western World". I'm sure there are better ways to reference the subject matter. Plus, given a recent colonial past, the "Western World" can ring with a bit of prejudice yes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
  18. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    And that's the thing, I don't think a lot of Arabs feel like this, even though there may be some undertones, I think most Arabs admire the West and seek to emulate it's accomplishments on perhaps all levels. The exception, for now, being religious freedom.

    I wouldn't call that "Arab" - see Malaysia and half a dozen Allah-using Churches burning at the moment.

    Well, I'm not sure if this is true. That said, we still don't say "English World".

    Even the Common Wealth isn't referred to as the English World.

    Now you're being narrow with Chinese speaking countries, like Taiwan and Singapore and over assuming the hegemony of "Arabs". Are Egyptians really Arabs?


    I still don't think it's a useful term and probably dumbs down the non "Arab" world by misrepresenting what is the true situation on the ground. I know Arab speaking Syrians who consider themselves Phonetician.... ON THIS BOARD!

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  19. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    What's the difference?

    ? Sure there is.

    The term is "Anglosphere," which is pretty much a direct synonym for "English Word."

    We also talk a lot about the "Free World," "Western World" and "First World."

    As above, the term is "Francosphere," although you don't hear it much these days.

    Well the Chinese, as a polity, are concentrated in a single country - China - so there wouldn't be much point. And let's note that the Chinese name for their country translates to something like "Center of the World," which is at least as chauvinistic as referring to one's self as a "world" - particularly for a country located at the eastern edge of the world's biggest land-mass.

    Right. Hence the endemic racial oppression in the Arab World.

    It's used in the media not because it's a good, progressive term, but because the Arab World exists objectively. Calling it something else won't accomplish anything other than confusion; certainly it won't end the genocide in Sudan.
     
  20. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Again, "Anglosphere."

    The only reason we don't say "English World" is that it would exaggerate the political importance of England in it.

    If Egyptians aren't Arabs, then there is no such thing as an Arab.

    I wouldn't cite the affiliations of anyone on this board as evidence of anything in the real world.
     
  21. John99 Banned Banned

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    "The West" means Western Hemisphere.
     
  22. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    No. "The West" refers to Western and Northern Europe, the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and sometimes also Japan, Latin America, Eastern Europe and a few other spots.
     
  23. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Indeed. And Japan is generally included in "the West," which is the way the region is more usually called. Japan was entirely rebuilt after WWII by American economists, technologists and industrial psychologists like Edward Deming, who could not get an audience at home. In a sense it is more American than we are.
    Well nobody said the term was devoid of connotation.
    Perhaps they don't, but our views are shaped by politicians like anyone else's, and they tell us that the Arabs hate us. Photos of people marching in the streets of Saudi Arabia, which is supposed to be one of our staunchest allies, carrying signs saying "Death to the Great Satan," certainly reinforce that belief. The fact that Saudi money underwrites virtually all anti-Western terrorist movements, except for the couple on the outskirts of Israel financed by Iran and Syria, further reinforces it.
    That's a pretty big exception in today's world, when rival cults of Abrahamism are once again, regular as clockwork, threatening to destroy civilization.
    Malaysia has its anti-Western terrorist cells, but they exist even in the United States. Malaysia taken as a whole, especially its government--just like Indonesia--is reliably pro-Western.
    As I said, it's because the term simply doesn't fit any reality. In any case, "English World" would be analogous to "Arabic World," which has a much different meaning than the phrase under discussion in this thread.
    Like the modern Britons, a Germanic (and now Franco-Germanic) people who took the name of the Celtic inhabitants they drove out of Britannia, the modern Egyptians are descended from Arabs who destroyed the Ancient Egyptian civilization (which admittedly was already in serious decline) and marginalized the native people. Like the Britons there is plenty of DNA from the original inhabitants due to intermarriage. The Ancient Egyptians were an Afro-Asiatic tribe related to the Semitic tribes, speaking a language that is recognizably related to the Semitic languages.

    The modern Egyptians have adopted the history of the Ancient Egyptians and consider the Pyramids and other relics part of their history, but they are predominantly the descendants of the armies of Caliph Omar, who occupied the country and rebuilt is as an Arab, Muslim nation.
    The world is full of people who have studied their own history and steep themselves in it. It's a common phenomenon in the USA for children and grandchildren of immigrant families to "reconnect to a heritage" they never really knew, studying the ancestral language and reviving traditions that they were never taught at home. Take for example the Aztlán/La Raza movement among the English-speaking university-educated American-born offspring of Mexican immigrants in America.
     

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